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Old 22-03-2015, 12:16   #46
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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I'm not. I'm just against stereotyping.
Well. Precisely how many female Brits have you brought on as crew? If the answer is zero, you have no experience to draw from now, do you?

Their need for space is infinite, and I'll let boatman61 confirm or deny this is a distinctly British cultural phenomenon.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:20   #47
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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Well. Precisely how many female Brits have you brought on as crew? If the answer is zero, you have no experience to draw from now, do you?

Their need for space is infinite, and I'll let boatman61 confirm or deny this is a distinctly British cultural phenomenon.
You could have every British woman on board your boat, and that still does not give you the right to stereotype an entire culture.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:22   #48
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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There's more stereotyping. Not every woman is going to obey your every command like a genie,
Well then, yer off the boat now. No ifs and buts about it. A done deal.

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...not every man is going to try to take control of your boat and the situation.
Unquestionably true because there'll be no man-cave lovin dude on my boat to begin with.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:28   #49
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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You could have every British woman on board your boat, and that still does not give you the right to stereotype an entire culture.
Aaarrrrrg! Out, out damned spot! I can't even entertain the thought! One's too many. Nooooo. Nooooo, not all of 'em at once.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:29   #50
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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As I have mentioned previously, he scared us. I asked for permission because I was going to get yelled at about it either way. He would have been mad if we told him to do something instead of us doing it. All we were trying to do was comply respectfully.

We had never been crew before, so we didn't know we could question the captain. I'm pretty sure he yelled that we're not to question him at one point.
I think the issue most of us have had with this is that you stayed so long.

In any event, it occurred to me that since you have only gotten answers from men here (and there are also some very great women who contribute here, too, but haven't joined this thread), you may want to try your question on a more women-oriented board to see if their impressions differ. Try here: herSailNet - SailNet Community

Good luck, would love to know the outcome.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:30   #51
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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There's more stereotyping. Not every woman is going to obey your every command like a genie, not every man is going to try to take control of your boat and the situation.
In case you can't see it NoQuarter- of course he is stereotyping. He is baiting you.
Relaxxx. No we aren't all polluters, and we can read and obey MARPOL regs. Now repeat after me...All seamen are not bad....
I think its funny though (see quote) the only person that did try to take over my boat was a big overweight guy with an authority problem....ie wrong got it right
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:35   #52
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

I'm beginning to see part of the problem. You lack a sense of humour, maleability, are opinionated and argumentative.

On a small boat a sense of humour is above all essential...

The rest can generally be cured by keelhauling the offending crew...
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:44   #53
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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In case you can't see it NoQuarter- of course he is stereotyping. He is baiting you.
Relaxxx. No we aren't all polluters, and we can read and obey MARPOL regs. Now repeat after me...All seamen are not bad....
I think its funny though (see quote) the only person that did try to take over my boat was a big overweight guy with an authority problem....
Quote:
ie wrong got it right
Wrong dude. "Wrong" got it right.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:55   #54
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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Wrong dude. "Wrong" got it right.
That's Mr. Wrong to you!!!
Sometimes I have to laugh at myself, I look around and I'm the only one in the cockpit...
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Old 22-03-2015, 13:17   #55
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

Welcome to the forum of many opinions with a lot of grumpy old dudes.

I'm old but not so grumpy yet. You got your first experience and really it wasn't too bad. One of my first instructors was an old Navy Captain amphibious airplane pilot. Every one of the female students either cried or was near tears because he was gruff with each of us both female and male but he treated us equally. He didn't mince words and he was stern and used "sailorly" language.

Another old grumpy Captain (retired Navy Chief Bosun) I had on a 55 foot schooner made a female crew scrub the deck as soon as she came aboard because she left a footprint. He confiscated any medication you might have and your passports or ID and put them in the ship's safe under lock and key. He went through personal belongings to make certain you weren't smuggling anything aboard. He was stickler for doing things his way and pronouncing things his way. He did use proper terms for rigging which is something you should do with each other even if the Captain doesn't. "Oh, you mean the starboard jib sheet?"

Your Captain was responsible for himself, his boat and your lives. Ultimately he was responsible. If you were paid crew then jumping ship might be seen as not quite right but if you were paying crew maybe you missed out on a few more lessons. That he didn't treat you equally with your partner means that he was an old style sexist and you learned something by that in that you now know what kind of Captain to avoid.

Having spent nearly 30 years in the Navy on many ships I've learned that you might disagree with what your Captain does but you don't question his ultimate responsibility for everything aboard. You don't question his judgment unless you know what he is doing is unsafe when it doesn't need to be.

You were right to leave when his personality clashed with your expectations.

Good luck to you and your partner in future sailing adventures.

kindest regards,
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Old 22-03-2015, 13:39   #56
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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Hahah, Randy. We have no harsh or negative feelings towards him or the event, it happened last year. I was just curious about what others would do in this situation. I'm not looking to be told that we were right or wrong, just wondering what others would do in a similar situation. It had been on my mind, but I didn't want to make it look like we were unappreciative and felt entitled to something that we didn't deserve.
It's pretty obvious to me that he was an *******. There are lots of assholes in this world, just because he owns a boat doesn't mean he can't be one.

I wouldn't worry about it, you removed yourself from an abusive situation. I would have confronted him head on about the first rude, crude or abusive remark, but that's just me. Everyone has a different tolerance level and a different way of dealing with it.
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Old 22-03-2015, 14:14   #57
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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Dear NoQuarter, I think you missed out on an opportunity. The BEST captain I ever sailed with was 80 years old, a smugger of conch, and didn't like me and told me so almost every day of our passage. He was supposed to be teaching us (we were paying for the opportunity) and he spent most of his time below sleeping (during the day while we were sailing) He sailed us into a storm on the Gulf Stream, into the Bermuda triangle, and in and throughout reefs that made our hair stand on end in a vary deep draft boat. And the whole time he carried on how we were a bunch of lame no good landlubbers (the entire crew was experienced sailors with their own boats). It was great!
We learned things like sailing smoothy in storms.
Identifying rocks by the changes in swells/waves over them.
MOB at night
and the list goes on.
So you are going to judge this guy by the way he dumps his poo offshore (legally) and that his bilge has oil in it? And that he didn't give you a spoon? Perhaps you should just sail your San Juan for a while. BTW- he cursed me when I left too, for sighting a USCG cutter when he had conch on board
I don't know if my boat, which I have put over 100k in the last 6 years, would pass your muster.

Newt, 99% of the time, I agree with your posts, this one time, not so much.

Yes it was his boat, but that doesn't excuse abusive behavior. You learned under an abusive captain but you didn't learn because of the abuse, it was despite the abuse.

When I got to my first sub, the CO was very abusive, throwing food and chairs at the crew. We did our jobs, but nobody was giving 100%, more like about 85-90%. There was rampant disrespect all through the ranks. It was like the CO was crapping on all of the officers, and everyone on down was crapping on each other.

We got a new CO 6 mos. later and the entire mood shifted like night and day. The new CO was a people person, he expected excellence, but told you to your face that he knew you could do it. He never said a negative thing except to mock those who were self important. He'd stop his sedan to pick up a sailor wearing a dirty uniform struggling with a seabag full of filthy uniforms heading for the barracks to get a shower and do laundry. "Slide over Admiral, this man needs a ride."

Suddenly the whole crew was high fiving each other and giving 110% to even the most hated jobs. We won every award there was, even awards I'd never heard of before.

Now I'm considered old school, I used strong tactics to get nonquals "motivated" to get qualified. That included throwing them out of a meal if a qualified guy needed a seat, waking them up at 2 AM to pump 10,000 gal of waste, then making them stand a 3rd UI watch from 3 am to 7 am, etc etc.

I made their lives hell in every possible way until they were qualified. BUT, these tactics were only used on DINKs - delinquent in Quals. A guy who was on track and making normal progress got my assistance - tutoring, access to my notes, including complete drawings of all systems, tips on who to see for checkouts, who was on watch and available, etc.

What I'm saying is, I use rewards and punishment in nearly all situations, but I will offer rewards for a long time, someone has to screw up quite a few times, before I put away the rewards and switch to the punishments. Calling someone stupid or verbally abusing them can result in a self fulfilling prophecy with some people. At the very least, it doesn't bring out the best in people.

Sure, some crusty old sailors have a lot of knowledge, but that doesn't mean they all make good teachers. Verbally abusing isn't teaching. Yelling just causes some people to shut down, completely.
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:18   #58
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

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But I am the type of woman who believes I can do anything a man can do, if not a little better... So to be treated like the housewife in a field that I want to know everything about was pretty disrespectful to me.
...There are so many "warning flags" about your ability to get-along and be a harmonious crew member in your posts that I don't even know where to begin or end ~

You said that you are the type of woman who believes she can do anything a man can do, if not a little better. Let's turn that statement around. I'm a man who believes I can do anything a woman can do on a boat, if not a little better. Can you just imagine how vilified I'd be for that statement?

I'd at least temper the assertion by suggesting my willingness to learn or my enthusiasm makes me a better candidate, but to make a blanket statement based on your gender alone?

Seriously?

Pot - Kettle anyone?

And what's the deal with being afraid to tell him you were thinking of jumping ship? What's the worst he would do, kick you off his boat? Huhh...

In his shoes, even if I didn't like you one little bit, I'd still be worried about what happened to you. I would have waited around a couple of days for your reappearance or to read a story in the local newspaper...

I don't believe from anything that you said there was even the slightest chance of physical violence. But no worries if things turned violent 'cause you can do anything a man can do if not better right?

Back to a serious note, there are lots of jerks in the world. He was likely one. That said - there are very few true psychopaths. Your behavior was cowardly and selfish.

Btw, while most have tried to provide you with helpful advice here, the result is you're being treated with kid-gloves. Exactly what you didn't want, right?

I think the kindest long-term advice you can be given is to simply buck-up.
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:44   #59
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

Maybe this guy was a jerk, frankly without details i have no idea.

But from what I have read I don't see anything else to complain about.

1) dumping sewage - legal, and assumed on long distance voyages. Your failure to understand this is your fault not his

2) pumping bilge water - absent mechanical fault there shouldn't be any oil in the bilge. Again pumping bilge water is normal, legal, and assumed.

3) in the channel... You were the stand on vessel, the overtaking freighter was the give way vessel. Size doesn't matter, you were legally required to maintain your course. Could you have edged closer to the channel edge, maybe I have no idea. But you very well may not have been able to. Again your captain did what he was legally required to do, changing course would have made him liable for an accident.

Frankly given these complaints, I can easily imagine that he was frustrated with a holier than thou attitude from someone who didn't know anything. Does it make him lashing out right? No not at all, but it makes it understandable.

As for the sexism... it happens, it isn't right, but frankly given the penchant for complaining about someone following the law in this thread to date I have doubt that what he did was sexist in the first place. He may have had a very good reason for what he did, but you disn't ask for that reason you just assumed he was sexist. Like you assumed he was breaking the law from dumping sewage, like you assumed he was breaking the law for pumping the bilge, like you assumed he was in the wrong as a stand on vessel...
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Old 22-03-2015, 17:24   #60
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Re: How do you deal with a bad captain?

I don't follow your logic OP. If you know nothing about navigation and my sense here is that you do not, how do you know he should have gotten out of the big ships way? Maybe there was a shoal, maybe he was standing on with good reaso?

As for sailing too close to the buoys, was that to close for his comfort level or too close for yours? He didn't hit the buoys, did he? He might have been justifiably comfortable with passing within a few feet. Many sailors will intentionally avoid the use of spotlights because they destroy your night vision. I only turn a big light on as a matter of last resort.

It sounds to me the like the guy went down to make you noodles, a little uncomfortable with leaving such inexperienced persons topsides, and just got frustrated when you badgered him about the fork. You don't need to be very worldly or creative to find ways to eat mister noodles without a fork.

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