Heedless Venture to Antarctica

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

Hindsight is 50/50 but if i had of had the choice i would have went!!! and i think alot of you would have too.....

You could not pay me enough....
not even the HSBC boss's $10,000000 annual bonus would tempt me....
Nuts I may be... suicidal I'm not... even tho' quite a few think I am...

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Was that a minesweeper? It looks tippy in flat water!

It was called a minesweeping auxiliary, but I'm not certain it was ever used as such. Second in the class - it was a former offshore supply vessel - round bottom and top heavy, it rolled like a metronome in all but absolutely flat seas. Anticosti class minesweeper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh yeah, a sister ship - the Lisbeth Tide capsized in the Med, I believe with only one survivor.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

You just keep talking down to us. I get it!

You know, I'm not sensing this. Mr. S. seems to be a pretty polite fellow. He's also done two extremely well-documented circs, so given that I've only done about 3,000 NM on salt and maybe the same on fresh...I'm going to heed what he says because, unlike domr og our perhaps imprudent Norwegian fellow sailors, he isn't dead.

From this, I infer a seamanlike competence. So I heed.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

It was called a minesweeping auxiliary, but I'm not certain it was ever used as such. Second in the class - it was a former offshore supply vessel - round bottom and top heavy, it rolled like a metronome in all but absolutely flat seas. Anticosti class minesweeper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh yeah, a sister ship - the Lisbeth Tide capsized in the Med, I believe with only one survivor.

Good grief...it sounds like some of the freighters my old man crewed on in WWII...he said he didn't care about the wind, he cared about the distance between wave crests, because in the right conditions, the bow and the stern would be supported and the laden freighter would split in half!

[dana-tenacity]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

Hindsight is 50/50 but if i had of had the choice i would have went!!! and i think alot of you would have too.....

I once was preparing to go round Cape Horn, but didn't have the money to do it "properly". So went through the canal instead and went back to work. To my dismay the opportunity hasn't arisen again (yet).

If I were offered an opportunity to sail to Antarctica, round the Horn or a visit to the sub antarctic Islands, I'd jump at it. Then I hope I would not allow my enthusiasm to go to get in the way of doing my homework. And if the trip was ill advised , the time of year wrong, the boat not up to a standard I consider necessary, the captain /crew not up to the standard I consider essential - I would opt out.

(it would be hard for me to go as crew after being captain for so many years and so many miles, but a trip like this I would go with Evans or Skip Novak and agree to submit to their greater knowledge of the very cold even though I have sailed in the Southern Ocean before, assuming during the essential shake down voyage we found ourselves to be compatable as I don't know either of them except through their writing)

[Zednotzee]

Personally, I don't understand the whole polar thing. I've been to the arctic- it may not be a wasteland, but it sure looks like one. There's no crowds, but I'd rather work hard at finding a secluded spot somewhere warm- or maybe I've just shovelled too much snow.

[IceDog]

Some posters seem to believe that there are commercial interests in McMurdo Station and that there are violations of the Antarctic Treaty going on there because of the photos showing development. This isn't true. Every activity that occurs there does so under the auspices of the treaty. McMurdo is the hub of the US Antarctic program for the continent, except for the tiny Palmer Station on the Antarctic Peninsula which is supported from Punta Arenas in Chile. As such the summer population can approach 2000 workers, with around 100 winterover members maintaining the station and running science experiments. McMurdo also provides some logistical support to other Nation's scientific programs. I have spent only a few weeks there but it has been my privilege to have worked for the USAP for four seasons, including a summer and two winters at South Pole Station and a winter at Palmer Station.
It may seem that 2000 people make a huge environmental impact but everyone there is essential to the program and most people work multiple jobs at least in the winter.(I avoid summers, too many people) Everything that is at South Pole Station came from McMurdo. We just completed a 10 year project to modernize South Pole Station that required 300 flights of Cargo planes carrying materials and people to support the project. In turn, the scientists who are supported by this effort have turned in world class research. Projects like the South Pole telescope and Ice Cube are producing work that leads their fields and can only be done in this environment. Crucial work on climate change is also carried out at the permanent stations and field camps supported from McMurdo. McMurdo looks like an ugly industrial town but every structure is needed. Any buildings in Antarctica that are no longer needed to support science are torn down and removed from the continent including the iconic South Pole Dome, to the sadness of many Ice people. Every waste product is categorized in around 7 categories for recycling prior to removal from the continent. Even 55 gallon drums of human waste are removed from the continent, though most of Mactown's waste is treated in a conventional sewage plant. Every effort is made to minimize the impact to the environment. Every worker is trained on the treaty and can and will be fired for violating it.
In summary, McMurdo looks like it does in the photos for a good reason, and only treaty approved activities occur there.

[David_Old_Jersey]

The Treaties were originally about ensuring that no one country could claim Antartica for itself, to the save the aggro of having to fight each other over it.

Could claim it was an early example of true co-operation for the benefit of all mankind - or simply a reflection that at tbe time the great powers did not realise quite how many riches it contained. and thought it worthless to fight over.

The environmental blah blah is simply an extension of that. Plus a commercial vested interest in having a bar to entry. Of course not to say there ain't plenty of true beleivers who think only happy thoughts.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The Treaties were originally about ensuring that no one country could claim Antartica for itself, to the save the aggro of having to fight each other over it.

Could claim it was an early example of true co-operation for the benefit of all mankind - or simply a reflection that at tbe time the great powers did not realise quite how many riches it contained. and thought it worthless to fight over.

The environmental blah blah is simply an extension of that. Plus a commercial vested interest in having a bar to entry. Of course not to say there ain't plenty of true beleivers who think only happy thoughts.

Thats my take on it too, do as we say not as we do. To get self rightious over two guys," stepping foot without out permission". Then build an industrial complex smacks of hypocrisy. If it wasn't for the "foolhardy" explorers, the scientific stations would not even be there. If they had been successful, there would still have been a hue and cry about the fees, and the permits. If they had more money, I'm sure they would have brought a bigger ship. If they had gotten it put together faster, I'm sure they would have gone in the summer. If the storm hadn't happened we would not be having this conversation.

It's easy to criticise while sitting in a chair in front of a computer. Not so easy to buy an old mine sweeper from one of the world wars, and set out to the most inhospitable place on the planet. Their voyage may have seemed ill equiped by modern standards, but they did reach antartica, they just lost their ride back.

In short, when I see any of you with a picture of yourself at the south pole, (you can get all the permits, if you like), then I will listen to any suggestions you may have of how to do it better.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

It's easy to criticise while sitting in a chair in front of a computer. Not so easy to buy an old mine sweeper from one of the world wars, and set out to the most inhospitable place on the planet. Their voyage may have seemed ill equiped by modern standards, but they did reach antartica, they just lost their ride back.

In short, when I see any of you with a picture of yourself at the south pole, (you can get all the permits, if you like), then I will listen to any suggestions you may have of how to do it better.

Thats like saying if Hitlers mother had aborted WW11 would not have happened...
and I would not recommend a old minesweeper they were mainly wooden... well the ones that were actually sweeping in Europe were... dunno about you guys over there...
As to a guy sitting out the rainy season in an armchair before his refit... there's a few who could plan/do it better... and would have the wisdom to realise it was to late and wait for the next season...
Its a wise old saying... 'Act in haste... Repent at leisure..."
And 3 lives is a lot of repentance for a cheap shot at personal glory...
may be cheap to you mate... but to high a price for me...

[goboatingnow]

In short, when I see any of you with a picture of yourself at the south pole, (you can get all the permits, if you like), then I will listen to any suggestions you may have of how to do it better

Thats nonsense, itelligent people constantly use their general knowledge to evaluate specific situations, thats what all "professionals do" They dont neccessarily have to experience every circumstance to comment on it. I would argue that many of the commentators here are such "professionals".

This undertaking was ill conceived, illegal, ill founded, and many other "ills", thats clear to any "professional " here armchair or otherwise, and to argue otherwise is simply non-sensical. i personally know people who sailed to Antartica and its was noticitable how much care, planning and professional exectuion was involved.

I dont applaud fools irrespective of wheather they succeed or not.

Dave

[sinbad7]

capnBilll..

In our modern society we HAVE laws and regulations which the majority follows.
They are mainly there to protect the individual both against himself AND others and are based on past experience from professional people who have sailed in these demanding and impredictable areas. Contrary misfits not prepared to follow the laws of the land will have to accept the consequenses.

I have nothing but admiration for individuals reaching their goals on a shoestring budget as long as it covers essential security aspects and the venture has been properly planned in consultation with experienced people or bodies.

[IceDog]

I did not condemn the ill fated expedition in this discussion. I applauded their bravery if not their planning. My knowledge of sailing is minimum but my knowledge of the Antarctic environment is greater than most. I know how quickly people die in that environment if they are not meticulously prepared for it and I personally know people who have died or been severely injured in that climate.
I also find it offensive that the hard work of many scientists and blue collar workers to maintain the terms of the environmental agreement are described by a poster as "environmental blah blah" I would like to see him outside at 100 degrees below zero working to recycle trash. If every worker in Antarctica is required to observe the treaty requirements why should a tourist be exempt. Do you believe that laws and rules are only for others or do you not believe in the rule of law?
As far as the early explorers are concerned, both Scott and Shackleton had vigorous scientific aspects to their explorations and drawing comparisons to the Berserk trip make no sense to me.
As far as the original treaty signing, I too believe that there were major political influences in the formation of the treaty but that is another topic.
Lastly here's my photo from the South Pole at Dawn...now let's see yours

[nonam]

Hmmmm....looks like icedog is standing in front of some kind of pollution there.
While we have all these Antarctic experts here could someone please educate me about the benefits of all this scientific research.There must be many benefits, but right now I cant think of one.You can talk grants and endowments and whatever but the bottom line is Mr and Mrs taxpayer pay for that McMurdo mess,and all the others,but Mr and Mrs taxpayer are not allowed to go there.As a NZ taxpayer I suspect those Norwegians may have cost me some thing ,but I suspect I got more for my money than I get from that mess at McMurdo.I say it is time to call a halt to that farce and get those freeloaders out of there and clean that whole mess up

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by nonam

Hmmmm....looks like icedog is standing in front of some kind of pollution there.
While we have all these Antarctic experts here could someone please educate me about the benefits of all this scientific research.There must be

Yea, let's go back to the stone age and live to the ripe old age of 20. We could hang around the fire and talk about hunting lions using a new fangled spear head. Seriously though, how did we get to where we are today?

It kind of reminds me about the guy who invented the oscilloscope. He said it was pretty interesting but didn't really see much use for it (think TV here.)

One has to plant many acorns to get a mighty oak. I think that the meteorite that was found to have evidence of extra terrestrial life was from Antarctica. There is some amazing biology being studied in the interior lakes. Fundamental food chain issues via using Monk seals as krill sensors are being understood. The list is long and any one thing has some potential to seriously positively impact our lives at best and at worse contribute to understanding our earth and all it amazing diversity.

IMO, it's a good investment.