Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2011, 07:27   #46
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
The theme about "forcing" vessels to the rescue has appeared in several posts. No rescuer is forced. Why wouldn't rescue efforts be delayed until conditions allow safe rescue? This doesn't make sense.
When a seaman puts out a mayday, other seamen WILL respond if there is any possibility they can help, putting their own equipment and lives at risk. It's the code of the sea. If you spend much time at sea or in the seafaring community you will appreciate and understand it.

To delay in the polar environment would make the whole rescue futile.
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 07:44   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Sounds like we need more international regulations to prevent ships that are a danger to crew and environment from leaving port.
__________________

__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 07:54   #48
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,635
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
Lodesman.. Oh, and the distance Sydney - Wellington is actually 1.200 nm by sea...
Which would be a bit over 2000 kilometres, and significantly less than "over 3000 km".
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 07:59   #49
Senior Cruiser
 
idpnd's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Almería, ES
Boat: Chiquita 46 - Libertalia
Posts: 1,551
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

FYI yacht's (former) homepage BERSERK EXPEDITIONS

http://wildvikings.hyperinteraktiv.no/ Expedition blog (Norwegian)

http://www.wildvikings.com/ Expedition homepage
__________________
sv Libertalia
idpnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:19   #50
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Sounds like we need more international regulations to prevent ships that are a danger to crew and environment from leaving port.
That's the last lesson one should take from this farce.

There are more than sufficient rules and regulations and procedures and standards. This Captain just choice to ignore and break most all of them.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:37   #51
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Sounds like we need more international regulations to prevent ships that are a danger to crew and environment from leaving port.

There's more than enough regs already.. if one does things properly...
but you'll never ever stop folks from going to sea in ridiculous boats on ridiculous adventures... no way you can patrol/regulate all coastlines....
And thats how it should be... I'm not calling for more regs...
I'm not even condeming his adventure...
what I am condeming is his unprofessionalism, stupidity and sheer disregard for the lives of others in those waters for 'his' 15mins of fame...
I am however aware there's a strong proportion of folks who will always consider 'MORONS' heros and adventurers....
else why would Gen G. Custer have the sun rising over his ass for so many years....
My reference to 'Manslaughter' was a heads up to possible consequences that he could face in court... it was not a call for that...
So I'd appreciate it if some of you could put eyes and brains in gear before putting words in my mouth....
Life is a lot like your job... no one ever remembers the years of good service/effort... they generally just remember your last week there.... and your judged on that forever
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:44   #52
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinbad7 View Post
A bunch of 'berserk vikings' from Norway set out on a badly planned venture to Antarctica with disastrous results. On a 'shoestring' budget they purchased a 40 year old steel/ferro sailing vessel around 45'.
(...)
What a horrible way to start a thread on an event where human lives were lost. And then it gets worse.

Hey, Matey - next time one of your family looses life in the ocean and all you will hear from NZ authorities will be "it costs us money" - how will you feel about it?

I 100% agree with many things the NZ Govt and the OP (and other posters) said on the expedition, but let's not allow the PC language of some over-regulated countries define discourse on sailing, adventuring and cruising.

They were not a bunch of berserk vikings from Norway. They were Norwegian sailors in the Antarctic.

barnakiel
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:25   #53
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Yes, we should, IF:

#1 the Captain leave a physical mess (sunken oil, fuel and much other junk) in one of the very last near pristine environments in the world which many people are trying very hard to protect, and
#2 His crew is killed because he does such a piss poor job of planning that they arrive after the season has ended and well after (several months) the event they are trying to 'recreate' actually happened, and
#3 He thumbs his nose at others, and ignores their suggestions and safety procedures, but then forces two other vessels to risk their equipment and lives in a rescue effort. And,
#4 He break so many normal safety procedures and rules that he leave a very bad taste in everyone else's mouth and makes it harder for other sailors afterwards to have THEIR adventure.
#5 When their 'adventure' is in 'bad style' (in the way mountaineers use the term) in any case. If is rather discouraged for mountaineers to cut steps in rock cliff faces and to dump trash all along their route, etc.
....I can only have scorn for his actual actions and decisions.
Under this criteria, how would you rate Scott's attempt to the Pole? With horses, no less? Horses was at least as stupid as ATVs. How about Shackleton's ego trip? He and other polar explorers left all manner of trash behind, thumbed their noses at the advice of so many who said they were fools to try it, broke many rules of safety and normally decency, and many folks ended up dead due to all this exploring.
__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:35   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artif View Post
The same could be said for sailing around the local harbour in a small dinghy, not so much for the fame but the sense of adventure for ones self. We do not need to sail around the local harbour or across the Oceans as it can be done by far "safer" means of transport.
I'm always amused at the critics of these follies, when they themselves are often doing the very same thing. Many of us have tales of "adventure", caught in bad weather or strong currents etc. etc. fortunately many of us live to tell the tale.
We don't need to climb mountains, but people do it, and people die doing it, does that mean the mountains should be cordoned off and made safe?

Should we condemn anyone for having their adventure?
Yes but if you drown you would be hard pressed to make the six o'clock news
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:44   #55
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
When a seaman puts out a mayday, other seamen WILL respond if there is any possibility they can help, putting their own equipment and lives at risk. It's the code of the sea. If you spend much time at sea or in the seafaring community you will appreciate and understand it.

To delay in the polar environment would make the whole rescue futile.
What I was trying to get at was more fundamental. I appreciate and understand extraordinary efforts to effect a rescue. However, there comes a point in time where you cannot go into the burning building or more recently go into the mine shaft. I think that given conditions of very high risk to the rescue team there is some point at which it is better to wait. Again I emphasis here that the rescue teams were not forced to go out in extreme conditions and that this terminology is incorrect.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:56   #56
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
putting their own equipment and lives at risk. It's the code of the sea.
Actually, the code is to NOT put your own life at risk. The reason is that we don't want the rescuers to end up adding even more people who need rescuing.

From the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Part VIII "High Seas"



Article98
Duty to render assistance
1. Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers:
(a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost;
(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such action may reasonably be expected of him;
(c) after a collision, to render assistance to the other ship, its crew and its passengers and, where possible, to inform the other ship of the name of his own ship, its port of registry and the nearest port at which it will call.
__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 10:15   #57
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
What I was trying to get at was more fundamental. I appreciate and understand extraordinary efforts to effect a rescue. However, there comes a point in time where you cannot go into the burning building or more recently go into the mine shaft. I think that given conditions of very high risk to the rescue team there is some point at which it is better to wait. Again I emphasis here that the rescue teams were not forced to go out in extreme conditions and that this terminology is incorrect.
Its often the case of "Damned if you do... Damned if you don't.."
What you have to remember is in 98% of cases these vessels are already out there and suffering the same conditions anyway...
If truth be told the NZ vessel would have suffered the same damage from the storm if he'd stayed in position...
Southern Ocean storms cover vast area's..
Its not like land where you can sit in the warm and dry for the optimum moments... so one goes for it... and hope you get there in time...
as most sailors are all to aware... one day it could be you and you'd like them to work for you as hard as you would for them....
Sadly as I've discovered in real life experience there's some really selfish arrogant jerks out there who expect all from others...
but are prepared to offer nothing themselves...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 10:19   #58
Registered User
 
Zednotzee's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oromocto, New Brunswick
Boat: 1976 Alberg 37 Yawl hull 172
Posts: 394
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

As I see it, the problem here is that they undertook this expedition without proper authority, according to the article in the OP, because they "knew it would be refused". There are several expeditions to the Antarctic each year. The reason they knew permission would be refused for them, was that they were already in trouble with authorities for the fiasco in the Arctic.

If someone went cruising in (for example) Brazil without proper permits & faced legal action because of it, nobody would jump to their defence. These guys would've been in trouble with authorities, whether or not their venture had been successful. It's unfortunate they couldn't be stopped before any lives were lost.

Don't be surprised if this stunt ruins things for everyone else.
__________________
Facts are for people who can't create their own truth. Fact.- Bucky Katt
Zednotzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 12:16   #59
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,744
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I appreciate and understand extraordinary efforts to effect a rescue. . . . not forced to go . . . . that this terminology is incorrect.
OK, I agree completely. Forced was a poor word choice on my part. They both felt they had a duty and an obligation to their fellow seamen to go, but I completely agree it was their choice and decision as seamen and no-one 'forced' them. I originally meant "forced" by their own sense of obligation and not by any outside authority - but I agree it was a bad choice of wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
Actually, the code is to NOT put your own life at risk. . . . .




From the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Part VIII "High Seas"
Are you by chance a lawyer? What you cite is only the obligation under international treaty - seamen in fact will all go to much greater effort than this to help each other. The 'code' is to go and help when ever and were ever possible, even at additional risk of equipment and life.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 12:27   #60
Registered User
 
Deadcat7382's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 38
Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Two things:

1. Darwins theory of natural selection. Need I say more?

2. If you are in the military, you will go into harms way during a maritime mishap, there are no two ways about it. You answer the call, I know I did during my time in military. I am sure that all the people who have been rescued during a maritime mishap, were damn glad that there were people coming to save them.
__________________

__________________
" off the wind on this heading lie the Marquesas"

"Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On"
Deadcat7382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our Venture into the Adventure mrnurseskiguy Meets & Greets 5 10-02-2011 21:25
For Sale: '76 Venture 21 CharlieCobra Classifieds Archive 0 23-08-2009 10:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.