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Old 05-03-2011, 14:33   #16
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

First off, my condolences to all involved.

I'm with nonam on this one, imagine that they had pulled it off, would we all be here condemning them or congratulating them for having the spirit to do it.
Unfortunately the weather can take even the most professional of mariners, look at the fishing community for example.
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Old 05-03-2011, 14:45   #17
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

South of Cape Horn? You're a better sailor than me, dead, or both.
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Old 05-03-2011, 14:57   #18
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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You're a better sailor than me, dead, or both.
There is alive to sail another day. Tomorrow we all could be better. It's called hope.
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Old 05-03-2011, 15:25   #19
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Paul..

May I respectfully remind you that Norwegian Roald Amundsen was the first to set foot on the South Pole only 100 years ago and the first to survive a visit to the North Pole and also the first to sail through the North West Passage with his ships the Gja and the Fram.

We must also remember Fridtjov Nansen,a Norwegian explorer, scientist, diplomat, humanitarian and Nobel laureate. In his youth a champion skier and ice skater, he led the first crossing of the Greenland interior in 1888, and won international fame after reaching a record northern latitude of 8613' during his North Pole expedition of 1893–96. Although he retired from exploration after his return to Norway, his techniques of polar travel and his innovations in equipment and clothing influenced a generation of subsequent Arctic and Antarctic expeditions.

We have since had many ways of re-visiting the poles,on skiis,on foot,yes literally,on one one leg and also by ladies. The latest attempt by these 'berserks' were to reach the pole by four wheeled motor bikes.

Just a little history....
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Old 05-03-2011, 15:35   #20
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

My father was in the British Merchant Marine during WWII, an organization with quite mixed crews as a matter of course, and during WWII in particular as various nationalities fled a Nazi-dominated Europe. Norway's large merchant fleet refused to be handed to the Nazis, and the Allied got much-needed professional crews and modern ships. My father said he always welcomed Norwegian sailors on British ships because "they knew what they were doing, and were less lazy than the British!"
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Old 05-03-2011, 15:38   #21
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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May I respectfully remind you that Norwegian Roald Amundsen was the first to set foot on the South Pole only 100 years ago
Not the first to see and chart Antarctica almost 200 years ago. It really was the last of the real sailing explorer expeditions. It ended in great controversy / scandal too. The US came at the very end of the good exploring stuff and this was it. Amundsen was a different story and still a very great story but it was not about sailing.
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Old 05-03-2011, 15:40   #22
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

This berserk venture was poorly planned - it's too late in the season, too cold and stormy - they claimed to be 'recreating' Amundsen's trip but he reached the south pole much earlier (dec 14th if I remember correctly), and the use of motor bikes seems in bad 'style' and a mockery of respect for Amundsen's accomplishment.
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Old 05-03-2011, 16:01   #23
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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. . . Where does this manslaughter talk come from?They were all adults.They knew what they were doing.There was no manslaughter.They knew they were gambling with their lives.How could anyone going down there not know that?
Interesting point. In regards to duty of care and negligence towards others, the law can be quite surprising. Back in 1928, Donoghue found a snail in her ginger beer, sued for damages and set a precedent which today is considered a foundation in regards to the legal concept of negligence. In my basic boating safety training, it was impressed on me that if I am skipper of a boat where someone is injured or dies and if it is shown that I have not made reasonable efforts relevent to the conditions for safety then I can be held legally negligent. For example, if I take people out on an unseaworthy boat and it sinks, I can be held liable even if all the people were happy to go out with me.

In this case of this Antartic misadventure, it will be interesting to see what comes out if it. From a legal perspective, I believe the law is not trying to stop people having adventure but to hold people responsible when it comes to injury from reckless adventure.
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Old 05-03-2011, 16:17   #24
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

Just to point a few points because of all the judging going on by some before me:
1. good spirits, dress ups, long beards, and load music has nothing to do with being knowledgeable and humbled by the sea, or keeping a seagoing vessel. There are a lot of quite, severe, who take themselves way too seriously who drove their boats on rocks or collided in to things, or left their cooling water">engine cooling water tap open while at anchor to wake up with just the mast sticking out of the water.
2. The boat was loaded before it reached the land with the ATV's. They were taken off, before the boat went down, so the fact the boat had ATV's on it has nothing to do with its misfortune.
3. When a Navy cap. say that the boat disappeared on the worst storm he seen in 20 years, I would say it must have been a very strong storm that any vessel making the smallest mistake could have not made it safely.

I am sorry for their loss and feel for their families. Being judgmental with no consideration to the facts what so ever is of a little bad taste IMHO.
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Old 05-03-2011, 16:54   #25
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

It'll be interesting to see who get's the lead in the movie.


Beserk - The Final Frontier

Starring Kurt Russell as the enigmatic skipper of the S/V Beserk and Kevin Costner as the taciturn Scott Base Manager.

In a harrowing tale of bravery, determination, and abject stupidity; 5 wily adventurers set off to the South Pole in a race to to become Darwin's newest award finalists. In a story filled with gripping intrigue set against the backdrop of the austere Antartic tundra - audiences will be on the edge of their seats in anticipation of what danger lies behind the next iceberg.

Coming to a theater near you Fall 2013.

Disclaimer: Professional driver on closed course. Do Not try at home. Contains chemicals known to cause cancer. Use at own risk. The opinions expressed are the authors personal views and do not reflect those of Sony pictures.
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:18   #26
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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In this case of this Antartic misadventure, it will be interesting to see what comes out if it.
Perhaps, but speculation now is mostly off topic. What will happen is not known. What has happened is more important.

Quote:
It'll be interesting to see who get's the lead in the movie.
Not now it isn't. Show some small bit of respect!
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:20   #27
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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Originally Posted by DannySt View Post
Just to point a few points because of all the judging going on by some before me:
1. good spirits, dress ups, long beards, and load music has nothing to do with being knowledgeable and humbled by the sea, or keeping a seagoing vessel. There are a lot of quite, severe, who take themselves way too seriously who drove their boats on rocks or collided in to things, or left their engine cooling water tap open while at anchor to wake up with just the mast sticking out of the water.
2. The boat was loaded before it reached the land with the ATV's. They were taken off, before the boat went down, so the fact the boat had ATV's on it has nothing to do with its misfortune.
3. When a Navy cap. say that the boat disappeared on the worst storm he seen in 20 years, I would say it must have been a very strong storm that any vessel making the smallest mistake could have not made it safely.

I am sorry for their loss and feel for their families. Being judgmental with no consideration to the facts what so ever is of a little bad taste IMHO.
Thanks for saying that.

I'll also point out that Jarle has sailed extensively in both the Antarctic and above the Arctic circle, including the Northwest passge and Russia. Not to mention all the miles inbetween... He is an experienced Polar Explorer and sailor, despite his attitude towards authority and his Viking personality.

He left his vessel with a competent and able crew member in charge. As far as I know, the Skipper of the vessel at the time is the one immediately responsible for the vessel and crew, not the captain who is on land.

If you let me sail your boat and I sink it, are you to blame? even if you made a bad judgment call, it would still ultimately be my responsibility to take care of your vessel while I'm in charge of it, correct? There is nothing you can do from a distance...

Nobody will ever know the circumstance or the cause of the incident, so putting blame on any one person at this stage is the only foolhardy thing in this case.

If they want to charge him with violating the Antarctic regulations that is another story, but to claim he haphazardly put his crew in harms way is nonsense. Jarle has proven over many years that he's a fully competent skipper and a responsible captain to his crew.
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:54   #28
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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Thanks for saying that.

I'll also point out that Jarle has sailed extensively in both the Antarctic and above the Arctic circle, including the Northwest passge and Russia. Not to mention all the miles inbetween...

Yes, and he left a bad impression in both places, potentially hurting subsequent cruising sailors


He left his vessel with a competent and able crew member in charge. As far as I know, the Skipper of the vessel at the time is the one immediately responsible for the vessel and crew, not the captain who is on land.

He is the one who planned the voyage and for some reason he arrived way too late in the season; and that was one of the primary causes of the problems.

Nobody will ever know the circumstance or the cause of the incident, so putting blame on any one person at this stage is the only foolhardy thing in this case.

The captain of the voyage is responsible. I hope he is not now trying to duck his responsibility and pass the buck.


.....
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Old 05-03-2011, 17:57   #29
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

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Just to point a few points because of all the judging going on by some before me:
There will be NO judgments made here on Cruisers Forum. Any suggestion that there might be should be reconsidered at your own peril. We can discuss the facts but we won't be going in other directions. Consider this an Official Warning for anyone that wants to contest it.

There has been a great tragedy with loss of life and there is time for consideration for the loss. That time would be now. We are sailors all and we can do no less.
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Old 05-03-2011, 18:16   #30
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Re: Heedless venture to Antarctica

No comments!! Enough said!!
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