Dumb Question? 'Beaching' vs 'Running Aground'

[planetluvver]

I will put the topic here, because of the embarassment factor.

While out on the river yesterday, someone mentioned a Dana 24 as a "go anywhere" boat. Although I do not enjoy the prospect of going solo, let's just say that I seem to have a knack for unsatisfying romantic entanglements, so a tiny cruiser that I can inexpensively single-hand myself may be the way to go.

Anyway, they talked about the keel, and I asked if that meant the boat was "beachable." I was laughed at and told,"THAT'S called going aground, and you never want to do that. I said that the Pardey's talk about beaching their boat, instead of needing to have it hauled out. I was told that the Pardey's are crazy. Another person conceded that yes, in emergencies, in isolated areas, sometimes this tactic is used, as if it were always a last-ditch effort to avoid sinking.

I was surprised to see that in a boat full of sailors a unanamous opinion on anything. Is it true that a boat's ability to beach a boat is a non-consideration?

PL

[Cheechako]

You are talking about "careening" I believe. It is commonly done in some parts of the world that have enough tide. A long keel is much better. If you want to beach a boat, you need a very shoal draft center board model.

[Vasco]

Best boats for beaching are bilge keelers or cats.

[Pelagic]

Not a dumb question at all. There is a great book called “Riddle of the Sands” that is all about 2 British sailors doing that every night just prior to WW1

For a while…Twin Keel mono hull boats were becoming popular because they could easily beach and sit upright

Like these Dufours

http://yachts.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=124161

[planetluvver]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Not a dumb question at all. There is a great book called “Riddle of the Sands” that is all about 2 British sailors doing that every night just prior to WW1

For a while…Twin Keel mono hull boats were becoming popular because they could easily beach and sit upright

Like these Dufours

Sabre Boats for sale UK, Sabre Used boat sales, Sabre Sailing Yachts For Sale Sabre 27 Bilge Keel for sale - Apollo Duck

But what a clever solution!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by planetluvver

But what a clever solution!

One of the main reasons we bought a twin keel yacht. With 4 - 5 metres of tide each day in Portsmouth Harbour (UK) our yacht club has two large concrete scrubbing grids to dry out on between the tides. A spring tide just gives me enough time to do one complete coat of antifouling and change the annodes, clean the prop etc. Membership about $30 a year for the club without moorings. To lift out in a nearby boat yard is $700 for a week and that is one of the cheaper ones

We have also dried out on hard sandy harbours without worry. Down side is we don't point to windward quite as well as a fin and in waves the windward keel can trap air under it occasionally leading to a thump.

Thats Duncan our surveyor and friend about to tell me that after 19 years the moisture readings in the hull are the same as the topsides and they are very low even though she has only been out of the water for 30 minutes

Pete

[Cheechako]

Yea, great book.

[SabreKai]

FWIW, I've also seen photos of english monokeel boats standing in the mud after the tide goes out. They have stilts which are secured to the sides of the hull, and as the water goes out the boat will settle on its keel and one or both of these stilts.

They also have a technique for winter storage where they will take a keel boat and run it into a marshy inlet until the boat is over an area where the keel will fit into a small channel and the boat will rest on its hull as the tide goes out. You sometimes see this in old english sailing books.


Sabre

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

FWIW, I've also seen photos of english monokeel boats standing in the mud after the tide goes out. They have stilts which are secured to the sides of the hull, and as the water goes out the boat will settle on its keel and one or both of these stilts.

Called "legs" The weight of the boat is taken on the keel, the legs are a tad shorter and are their to stop her falling over not to take the whole boats weight (hence you spotting some lying on one leg / stilt) - so in practice one has to take some care where one drys out / where & how you keep her moored.

Legs can be retro fitted to many boats, if being able to dry out is really needed.

Coming from somewhere where the sea is only here half the day a boat being able to take the ground is quite normal. and pre Marina was essential!

A boat with a fin keel and no legs would not normally dry out (pre marinas they sat afloat in wooden cradles), indeed would actively seek never to! although in principal a fin keel boat will lie on her side (as said "careening" to paint bottoms etc), in practice most yachts would not be designed to cope with all her weight on the side of the hull, especially if the returning tide starts bumping her on the seabed before she floats up right (the old working boats were). May well get away with it, but unless you knew she could cope you wouldn't ever choose to risk it............I suspect this is where the comments to OP come from. To dry out these boats simply lie against a harbour wall.

But simply adding legs to a fin keeler does not mean you can dry out anywhere, as a risk that she may trip over her legs if moored (or anchored) somewhere exposed to weather / tidal movement. In sheltered harbours on fore and aft moorings would be normal. Accidental grounding would not automatically be a disaster if the legs (or a leg!) could be got down in time - and the seabed was fairly flat. Of course when you run aground on a falling tide you need to move fast to get the legs on (trust me on that ).

One of the reasons I bought a triple keeler (Long main keel takes the weight - wing keels keep her propped up right, and on mine are also the water tanks. Bilge Keeler much the same) is that if (when?) I run aground it is not a disaster - as you can see from my profile picture That's the harbour entrance ........but doesn't mean I can run aground safely anywhere - I particulerly would not want to be on an exposed foreshore and have her pounding the seabed with her wing keels too much before floating.

[planetluvver]

Thanks! And I know that there are plenty of paddlers and rowers who have made long distance trips, and I imagine that most of them are coming ashore nightly.

[sarafina]

you would want to know the area/ground very well and need to have just the right topography under her... but it's a pretty time honored tradition... they didn't used to haul boats out into dry dock. and they didn't have anti fouling paint. Copper clad was the high tech way to go, and careening was how anti fouling was handled as well as repairs.

[Efraim]

So all the experts laughed at you....not surprising. For people who live in areas with substantial tides beaching is common. The photo below show a boat in such an area, the legs are referred to as "beaching legs" or "yacht legs". So much for the experts.

[forsailbyowner]

I've stood my boat on keel on many occasions. Recently tied to a dock at a little used boatramp(with marinas permission) and installed transducer. Raised waterline and scrubbed hull while at it. Have done it with anchors out both sides and other tied to trees. One tip DO NOT use nylon line. I had boat slowly tip over as line stretched the first time I did it. Was surprised I was able to right using winches.

[planetluvver]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

I've stood my boat on keel on many occasions. Recently tied to a dock at a little used boatramp(with marinas permission) and installed transducer. Raised waterline and scrubbed hull while at it. Have done it with anchors out both sides and other tied to trees. One tip DO NOT use nylon line. I had boat slowly tip over as line stretched the first time I did it. Was surprised I was able to right using winches.

In my younger days, I went caving, and I was just starting out with rappelling. Someone rigged the drop with the stretchy rope that rope rock climbers use, instead of the less stretchy stuff used for rappelling. I went over the drop, got my leg caught between the rock lip and the rope, and with the rope stretch I was hanging up-side down. It was actually kind of funny, but a bit disconcerting, because the drop was not very far, so I was unsure if I would get to the bottom before I was upright again!

[barnakiel]

A shallow, long keel mono can be safely beached, in emergency or not. A cat even more so.

I believe a Hess design is one example and (as far as I can remember her lines) Dana is close to it. (Beware - Dana is not MY ideal of go everywhere boat).

The normal considerations apply - avoid rocks and ooze, look for sand and preferably flat sand - if you want to beach for maintenance.

Emergency beaching is normally survived by boats - even by the more racy stuff - again, the same considerations - look for a sandy beach and not a too steep one.

In the area where I grew up - the S coast of the Baltic - there are many fishing villages and the daily practice is to beach the boats for the night or if the storm is threatening. Such boats are most often wooden planks (overlap - probably called clinker ???) have normal diesel inboards, etc.. and they normally serve for 20-30 years before needing replacement. No anti-foul on them either ... ;-)))

So much for boat beaching.

Ah, yes, and the GIRLS - you can meet some great girls / guys - if you beach in the right place !!! Just avoid countries with high rate of tree-huggers - they will try to re-float you no matter what !!!

b.