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Old 09-11-2012, 17:04   #106
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

KJB ...I was only talking in general. In no way was I referring to you...Geeezz!
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Old 09-11-2012, 17:18   #107
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Cool. No hard feelings. I look forward to getting more great info through this forum. Have a great day!
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:04   #108
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
It can be endless...he said...she said...My feeling is on a forum people would say things that they would not necessarily say face to face. Usually when people are new on a forum like this, they are trying to make a name for themselves. Most of the members were just commenting on the negative tone of the OP. When asked if he chartered, what kind of boat and what not...no answer came forth. Some of us that have been here for awhile see this from time to time and it can be an indicator of B.S. or a person lacking all skills to sail a boat and members get a little suspicious.

I don't think 2 years means OP is a Newbie.

As for the rest of your assertions / interpretations - I remain at a loss ......maybe we were reading a different thread?
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:46   #109
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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I don't think 2 years means OP is a Newbie.

As for the rest of your assertions / interpretations - I remain at a loss ......maybe we were reading a different thread?

I agree with Celestial. I have seen people say things they wouldn't say, face to face, many, many times online.

I've also seen many, many people who expect 25 million people on line to agree with them -- and that if they don't agree with them, that's some kind of personal insult or outrage.

I have often thought that if these people were talking face to face, facial expression would reveal that they did not mean what they said in an aggressive way. Or they would see by the other person's reaction that it was taken wrong, and immediately make amends.

But the *big* problem (IMO) with online communication is that the words are so permanent. Spoken, they're vibrations on the air that rapidly fade. They don't hang over your head (perhaps misinterpreted) like a cartoon balloon for days or weeks. Maybe you DID say something clumsily or in a way that irritated others -- and now it's permanent. Online communication can be tough, and is often over-interpreted.

It is also the ideal medium for colossal misinterpretation when the receiver reads between the lines and then remembers only what he thinks the other person meant and not what he or she actualy said.

It's a verbal mine field.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:02   #110
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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I agree with Celestial. I have seen people say things they wouldn't say, face to face, many, many times online.
But the upside is you likely to get more honesty. Both for the same reason that speaking to strangers (in real life) is sometimes more useful than freinds / family and because online not so likely to get punched .....which also means you don't need to punch someone first. Just in case!

IMO all that a score draw Online no better or worse than real life - just different..........of course not everyone can cope with different.


But I still don't see that OP was getting anywhere near crapping into the Cheerios of others .........indeed, he didn't even say he regretted his adventure - the "clue" for me is:-

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I certainly don't regret my adventure
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:12   #111
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
But the upside is you likely to get more honesty. Both for the same reason that speaking to strangers (in real life) is sometimes more useful than freinds / family and because online not so likely to get punched .....which also means you don't need to punch someone first. Just in case!

IMO all that a score draw Online no better or worse than real life - just different..........of course not everyone can cope with different.


But I still don't see that OP was getting anywhere near crapping into the Cheerios of others .........indeed, he didn't even say he regretted his adventure - the "clue" for me is:-

I'm going to step away from talking about individual posts or posters. Atually -- IMO -- what one often gets on line is bluster and posturing.

Very often what one person sees as messing in the Cheerios is a misunderstanding, and I think misunderstandings are extremely hard to untangle online sometimes. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're looking at "clues" when in fact maybe the poster's phone rang, and his chain of thought was interrupted. It's very easy to expect others to write posts as we would write them, and to see some flaw in them if they are not. We communicate with people on line that in real life we might have passed by as people to spend time with.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:50   #112
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
As for the rest of your assertions / interpretations - I remain at a loss ......maybe we were reading a different thread?
Some how I'm not surprised with your post.

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I agree with Celestial. I have seen people say things they wouldn't say, face to face, many, many times online.

I've also seen many, many people who expect 25 million people on line to agree with them -- and that if they don't agree with them, that's some kind of personal insult or outrage.
This is exactly what happened with this thread. Because some people had some opinions, the were berated for it. Again...the OP never gave enough information.

I have often thought that if these people were talking face to face, facial expression would reveal that they did not mean what they said in an aggressive way. Or they would see by the other person's reaction that it was taken wrong, and immediately make amends.
Also when talking in person, body language reveals if the person is full of it or not.

It is also the ideal medium for colossal misinterpretation when the receiver reads between the lines and then remembers only what he thinks the other person meant and not what he or she actualy said.

It's a verbal mine field.
Again, my point about the Op not revealing any information when asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
But the upside is you likely to get more honesty. Both for the same reason that speaking to strangers (in real life) is sometimes more useful than freinds / family and because online not so likely to get punched .....which also means you don't need to punch someone first. Just in case!
More honesty online? I doubt that very much. People come on here, become Robin Knox Johnson overnight, are immediately shipwrights and have drank at every bar in Singapore. I would wager a few members do not have a boat and claim they do.
But I still don't see that OP was getting anywhere near crapping into the Cheerios of others .........indeed, he didn't even say he regretted his adventure - the "clue" for me is:-
I don't think many were saying he was crapping in Cheerios. Most members were asking for more information and not getting it. It's difficult to sort out his negativity when there is not enough information.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:59   #113
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

I can easily believe the original post. I think the same concept can be applied to people who spend all their working lives getting to retirement just to find out that they don't have any plans to keep themselves occupied.

Cruising and retirement are just the same, you need something to do with your time.
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Old 15-11-2012, 17:36   #114
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

I agree whole heartedly, even more so as I turned 50 and there's getting younger after this! Been there, done that....wasted too much sailing money on cars and long gone women. I'll settle for a stable personality and low maintenance woman if one is still to be found!

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You know.....I find the last point somewhat one sided, and very naive. Let me explain:

Most guys who can afford a big nice planning cruiser are going to have that Ferrari or at least the top of the line BMW to go with it. They have the big money, and money attracts certain types of women.

This is called selective process. It happens in nature all the time with other creatures who have the best displays and most extravagant colors.

Before some other person gets the idea, that is what he or she wants. Most women that are attracted to that display expect the suitor to provide that same amount of effort/money throughout their lives. Money, riches, remarkable vacations, etc.

I really think I'll stick with my low maintenance wife. She is quite happy with a small boat, living on a small budget, and I'm not going to be required to work until I die. She understands how to "do without" to insure she gets to enjoy much more of the simple life.

Is my wife a runway model? Nope, and I sure am glad. She is smart, and that is something that will not go away, unlike looks. All women can get thicker, and all will get old.

I'm happy with the trusty sail, and slow. Let the playboys of the world have all the high maintenance women. I'll stick with the easy life.

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Old 15-11-2012, 18:52   #115
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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I agree whole heartedly, even more so as I turned 50 and there's getting younger after this! Been there, done that....wasted too much sailing money on cars and long gone women. I'll settle for a stable personality and low maintenance woman if one is still to be found!
But what do you do for excitement?

As annoying as it has been in my life to have women spending all my money, I also believe that I would never have achieved my current level of financial success without that constant motivation. Trying to outearn a woman's capacity to spend it may not have been the best way to spend my life, but it certainly isn't the worst way things could have gone!
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:47   #116
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

I just want to say that this post was, to me, incredibly motivational and makes me want to sail that much more.

definitely appreciate the post though, a lot of food for thought.

coming from the pacific northwest, where "camping" means pack a couple extra tarps because it will get wet, and hiking means you're so dense in the woods GPS doesn't get reception, this type of boating sounds up my alley

the time alone on the boat sounds like a great opportunity to work on some new poetry, or just read. Kayaking in a storm to get groceries? Extreme sport! I can only imagine how a good a nice relaxing nap would feel afterwards

and women? you have a boat. If you have a hard time attracting women you are doing something wrong. maybe use the alone time to do situps?

(I realize half of your post was tongue-in-cheek, but I enjoyed it anyways )





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Are you planning on taking some time off, maybe a year, maybe fovever, sail down the carribean and if things go well, cross the Panama canal and just keep going? Ya so was I, here's what I've learned.

-Get as big of boat as you can handle, maybe even a little bigger. Yes people have crossed oceans in canoes, but there is a reason most people take a cruise ship, or a plane. A bigger boat will bounce less, go faster, and has more storage room. Try living in just your bathroom for a week, or just an hour and see if you still think that Catalina 27' is fine.

-The ocean is never flat, and the wind will always be against you. It was for me and it probably will be for you. Even if you don't get seasick, pounding into waves crawling your way up-wind just isn't very fun (the smaller the boat the worse it will be).

-Invest in a good dinghy, with a good motor. Rowing to shore in a kayak against the wind with your grociers getting all wet kind of sucks. Sitting on your boat all day eating stale crackers and peanut butter sucks more.

-It can be boring, especially if your alone. Yes the water is beautiful and there are time when it is amazing, but a lot of the time it's boring. Eventualy the novelty wears off and you're sitting alone in a piece of fiberglass with nothing to do but look at the same water all day long. Then you get to port, a storm hits and you have to ride it out for three days in your boat because there is no way you could row your kayak in that water. (Longest three days of my life)

-Don't get to hung on the sailing part. Actualy sailing the boat is pretty easy, the hard part is all the other stuff. Reading the signs, figureing out where to go (btw get a good gps) stocking food, buying equipment, etc.

-There aren't sandy beaches where you can tie off to a coconut tree everywhere, or anywhere (at least not in the keys). You're going to have to go to designated anchorages, many of which aren't very exciting at all.

-The moral of the story is: buy a power boat, better yet, convience your friend to buy a power boat. While sailing my sailboat I was passed by many a power boat full of girls in bikinis hanging over the sides, not one sailboat though. So don't give up. I certainly don't regret my adventure, but it wasn't at all what I expected.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:10   #117
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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and women? you have a boat. If you have a hard time attracting women you are doing something wrong. maybe use the alone time to do situps?
"I have a boat"

"I live on a boat"

To the untrained eye, these sentences differ only by a few letters.

To a woman, these sentences have almost nothing in common.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:34   #118
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

I just noticed that the OP asked why I thought his post was laughable. I apologize for the delay in answering.

My intention was not to dismiss your experience or your skill set. Certainly not was I to laugh at the apparent misfortune of your adventure.

What I found most disagreeable was to draw conclusions from one anecdotal experience then to generalize that acoss all similar pursuits. Further, one's own attitude is a factor. I suspect that the OP concluded from his Key West debacle that the remaining sail to differing climes would be more of the same. I found that part especially, um, laughable.

I have stood on the plunging bow above 40* Lat just for the hell of it. A reach in a beam sea for 10 days (Japan-Alaska in April) I count among my worst experiences. But as some have found, there is the grand adventure of it, even if one finds little appreciation while doing it. In those 10 days I found what it was like to walk on walls when the flat ware, et al was on the cabin sole. And I finally found the snuggest corner of my bunk. I would do it again if I had experienced crew mates.

And the OP's 3 days spent on the hook? Well, that's for starters.

Summary: one's attitude determines the outcome, if one would do it again. Sorry if this came to sound like a pissing match.

Just one more tale to emphasis of my point: Caught in 30' swells in 60 kts ,and increasing, on our way to WA from Hawaii, myself and one other decided to turn tail. It was too tight a run for even OR so we made for Crescent City, then Eureka. Eventually Monterey, CA. In that 8 days we enjoyed a downhill sleigh ride. A full moon on the rise in clear skies meant we had enough light round the clock. I dug it! I mean, I enjoyed the ride immensely. This even though I knew we were often on the edge of mishap. Sometimes those mishaps will come in spite of knowledge or experience. What remains is one's attitude. From the beggining it is all about attitude.

For me to say that because I had a roaring good time in that confused sea state then to dismiss another if they don't is not right of me. Likewise, for the OP to say 'this is how it was for me, this is how it will be for you' (or even, this is how it is here, it will be the same elsewhere) is way out there.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:34   #119
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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"I have a boat"

"I live on a boat"

To the untrained eye, these sentences differ only by a few letters.

To a woman, these sentences have almost nothing in common.
Art, you are correct in this. But there is also a significant difference in the women who react positively to each sentence.

The "I have a boat" women (Generalization here!) want to go sailing, in good weather, downwind, show off the bikini etc etc. Coming back, beating upwind, in borrowed foulies - not fun. do it once . no more.

The "I live on a boat" women, think its a gas (most of the time) to beat upwind, even though it means being wet, cold, hair blown everywhere etc etc.

Some women can make the transition from "I have a boat" type to "I live on a boat". Some cannot.

To be fair - the above statements are also true for men. Not all men think it is a blast to drive a boat upwind in a gale.

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Old 11-12-2012, 08:28   #120
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

haha good point, that gave me a chuckle
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