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Old 06-11-2012, 20:59   #76
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
I've seen this, and I feel that it is caused by the common method of instruction of teaching maneuvers to the wind.

Now, I do understand the importance of teaching maneuvers to the wind, but this is counterintuitive to many people. For them, the sail is just the thing that makes them go where they want to go - like the motor would do in a motor boat.

I think it might help if wind awareness was taught as a function of navigating first, rather than as a function of the sail. "If you want to go there, how do you set the sail?" The first step of course it to know where the wind is coming from.

This puts the horse in front of the cart. We don't go where the sail wants to take us, we set the sail to go where want to be.

Well, that's included. People are told WHY they have to tack. If the wind is from the north, and their destination is to the north, they're gonna have to zig zag. She gets that. I've taught sail school. The students get that. In one way it's all destination sailing because she has to eventually get the boat back to its slip. If you're pointed southwest and need to go northeast, that is not the time to start the tack. Tacks don't just start any old place. It's all important, but she does understand why she's tacking.
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Old 06-11-2012, 22:51   #77
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Thanks for all the replies so far, even the negative ones. I'm just expressing my opinions so I really don't mind someone else expressing their's that I'm wrong.

I don't think some of you are getting my point though. In my experiences, lack of sailing knowledge was never a problem. Woud I be in trouble in 50 kn winds and and 10 ft seas? Probably, but weather forcasts are pretty acurate these days and it was never an issue. What was a problem was going out on a typical day with 10 kn winds and 2-4 ft seas. Doesn't sound like much, but it gets old real fast when you're bouncing all over even in 2-4 ft waves.

Most of my planning went into the boat and how to sail, with little or no planning about what life would actualy be like. Just guessing here but, I think this might be common for other beginers too. We get too hung up on wether on not we know how to use a sextant when we should be worried about more of the daily living things like getting a good a variety of food that will keep, or what I'm going to do in the next port.

It's not like I decided to try out brain surgery for a while. I took one lesson, bought my first boat and sailed it out in the bay (and back ) by myself the first time. Getting in and out of the slip was by the hardest part, but that's what they make bumbers for after all. The rest is common sense.
I get it Corpus. Some people just aren't suited to cruising. No shame in that. Lots of things I would hate doing probably. Many of us are just so passionate about sailing here, that we just have blinkers on.
I don't honestly think a bigger boat or more food on board will make much difference to your enjoyment. You may learn to tolerate cruising or like some aspects of it, but I doubt you will ever have that ear splitting grin plastered on your face after a month on the water. Chartering with friends may be an enjoyable option though. Or if you want to have another go, why don't you try racing? Totally different kettle of fish. Just front up at any yacht club on race day and someone will be glad to have you on board as ballast. As your skill levels grow you will get more interesting roles and be in higher demand.

On the other hand, life is short. Maybe go pursue some other interests.
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Old 07-11-2012, 14:43   #78
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

On one of our first "cruises" on our old C22 in 1983, we were up in the California Delta with howling winds from astern on the San Joaquin River. All was well until the rudder popped out of its gudgeons! Good thing the darn thing floated. We used the motor to go back and get it! Then we pulled into a side channel and got our port shroud caught on an overhanging building roof!

Next step was a C25 and then our C34. Thanks to the Admiral, who, over the years, has insisted on reasonable creature comforts.

Whatever the OP does, whether to stay with his current boat or get another one, is his choice.

Nice to hear differing views.
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Old 07-11-2012, 16:09   #79
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

[QUOTE=flink;1077526]
Quote:

That's all I'll say. I'm done.
Some how I doubt that...
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:37   #80
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Let’s remember one important item here, the OP posted in the SAILORS CONFESSIONAL, not the “Sailing is all Caviar and Sunsets” thread. He stated HIS experience and HIS take-aways as someone who was brave and diligent enough to fully throw his leg over this idea of sailing. Thankfully CF has a pretty well-mannered population, but the responses to his honest confessions were lame and sad. As someone who dreams of sailing for an extended period at some point, it was VERY interesting to read what he posted. The Cruising magazines can often paint an overly optimistic image of people sitting in a lagoon, and yes tied to a coconut tree, as dolphins entertain them and fresh fruit and icy cold punch are within reach. I don’t think the OP ever said he hated the experience or even regrets it.

Perhaps we should employ a new rule in the Sailors Confessional forum. Only up-lifting, back-slapping stories extoling the virtues of sailing are allowed – how’s that sound?
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:59   #81
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Hmmmm...I'm wondering which magazine you were reading? If we only allowed "up-lifting, back-slapping" stories, then would we not be like those aforementioned magazines?...
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Old 08-11-2012, 13:21   #82
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Let’s remember one important item here, the OP posted in the SAILORS CONFESSIONAL, not the “Sailing is all Caviar and Sunsets” thread. He stated HIS experience and HIS take-aways as someone who was brave and diligent enough to fully throw his leg over this idea of sailing. ...
Come on XD: It's called the Sailor's Confessional, not the Newbie's Advice Blog. The posts were entertaining because of Capt Corpus' fecklessness, and utter lack of any nautical knowhow! That's what's funny and laughable as was pointed out by Richard5, forevermore to be hailed as DearestRichard5.

That's funny, I don't care who ya are!

Corpus' later posts are much easier to take as he owns up to various and sundry weaknesses that the readership here and the thousands of online lurkers knew from the getgo.

But for many of us this thread got better with another new-to-the-forum guy calling a 27 footer a starter boat, a stepping stone to his real boat which would be 36'. A 7 footer is a starter boat. Yet another poster is going to solve those problems with waves by getting a catamaran. Yep, that'll do it. Serious forum readers will have by now read a recent story about aptly named deathcats, but to each his own. Of course the real turd in the Mai Tais was Capt Flink calling actual Captain Eric "Rebel" Heart a ... well we all know what he said.

Yes, I do have better things to do but as Capt DeepFrz noted, this is fun!

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Old 08-11-2012, 13:46   #83
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Eh and the world so lovely EXACTLY because our experiences are so varied and because, in democracies, we are not afraid of sharing our ins and outs and likes and dislikes!

I liked the OP's take (and I found it valid measured against my own feelings and impressions) and I enjoyed some of the comments (also some of the 'rude' ones, which I actually found not rude but rather straightforward).

A spade is a spade and this does not imply we all see spades in the same way! Freedom, diversity, sense of humour.

Guys, enjoy your lives, do NOT waste your time getting offended. I promise you: you meet the 'offender' in an anchorage one day and you may make great friends.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 08-11-2012, 13:46   #84
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

if one carries expectations in life, one will be most disappointed much of the time.
i am finding much to enjoy in my full time cruising--there is boat repair, there is enjoyment o f new locales, and there is weather--weather is a test of how good you are under stress. keep the freezing part, the rest rocks. even storms are lessons to be learned, each one being different.
cruising under sail is a life style as opposed to a short term holiday--one is made to stand it, or one is not.
funny how no one ever knows until out there how it truly is--i love it, myself--is a wonderful world with all kinds of life and living things in the sea--some folks get too much of it and some not even ever enough.... enjoy what you like and have good life--suffer through something someone else said would be fun, but you don tlike--is miserable...each has own fun in life--just make sure you do enjoy and LIVE your life.

and is so funny how something sounds awesome in a glossy rag, yet is actual WORK when you try it.....LOL
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Old 08-11-2012, 13:49   #85
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...I promise you: you meet the 'offender' in an anchorage one day and you may make great friends.
+1000

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Old 08-11-2012, 17:49   #86
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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if one carries expectations in life, one will be most disappointed much of the time.
Here is how I've expressed it: "The cause of disappointments is expectations. If you don't have expectations, you won't be disappointed."

TO THE OP:
The forum has traditionally been tough on newbies, even to the point of plain rudeness. You don't have to defend yourself or your experience.

If you had done anything differently, these same people would be beating on you that you should "just get out and do it", and that "even a 27 foot boat can be a good place to start."

Now they are trashing you for doing that very thing! I for one commend your get-out-and-do-it attitude and approach. It is exactly what I would have done, had I been in your circumstances. You took naturally to the mechanics of sailing, as I did. I think we're a lot alike.

I look forward to hearing from you again as to whether you will keep your boat, whether you'll move back on land, or if you are thinking of retooling for a 2nd shot at it!

WBS!
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Old 08-11-2012, 18:08   #87
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Come on XD: It's called the Sailor's Confessional, not the Newbie's Advice Blog. The posts were entertaining because of Capt Corpus' fecklessness, and utter lack of any nautical knowhow! That's what's funny and laughable as was pointed out by Richard5, forevermore to be hailed as DearestRichard5.

That's funny, I don't care who ya are!
Of course you are entitled to your opinion (and I am sure you are very happy with it ), but just in case you missed it - that whoosh sound was the humour in OP's post going straight over your head ........which I do find laughable .

A strange thread..........
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Old 08-11-2012, 18:52   #88
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

Personally, I liked the post. Clever and clarifying. For those who may not have enjoyed it - oh well. When it gets to the point that one can no longer speak or express his viewpoint - we've come to a very bad place. Humor also works. Two thumbs up.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:04   #89
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Of course you are entitled to your opinion (and I am sure you are very happy with it ), but just in case you missed it - that whoosh sound was the humour in OP's post going straight over your head ........which I do find laughable .

A strange thread..........

Maybe so, Dave. Wouldn't be the first time. Several posters thought the OP was trolling for entertainment, and perhaps he was in the OP but along about post 26 and later, he doesn't appear to be kidding at all. But I guess that's yer point.
I cheerfully disagree.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:20   #90
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Re: Don't quit yet, but here some advice...

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Still remembering my first days sailing, I disagree.

I have a friend who took the same beginning sailing class I did, at the same time I did. However, while I was out buying a boat and practicing every day, she went back north for four months. Then she came back, and tried to sail, and ... could not tack. Did not remember how to tack. She has struggled ever since. I offered to take her out on one of our instructional boats, and saw what was going on.

First of all, she had not developed wind awareness. So she might be on a very broad reach ... and start her tack. She would do the standard thing beginners do, not end the tack when it should have been ended. Sometimes she ended up going in complete circles.

So I wrote out the steps out for her to tack, starting with knowing where the wind is, and then visually spotting where to stop and start the tack. There were nine steps in all, a lot to remember. You have to execute it over and over for it to even begin to become automatic. In fact, it becomes automatic in stages. There's a lot going on and a lot to remember, and on top of it all, it can be a little scary when you're just starting.

That makes it hard, not easy. And if you can't tack, you can't sail. Anyone can sail on a broad reach.

Then there's sail trim. It's tricky, and a lot goes into it. In the boats many beginners learn on, watching out for an accidental jybe is serious business. To me, having to watch out for something that could accidentally kill you makes that thing you're doing "not easy" as well as dangerous.

Then you have to learn to judge wind speed, because many, many boats do not have wind gauges. You have to be ready to INSTANTLY depower the sails in a sudden gust. That means you have to recognize a number of things right away AND know what to do and how to do it -- right away.

This is all easy once you've learned it and it's more or less automatic, but learning to sail is a lot more complicated than learning any number of other things, including the basics of snow skiing.

The terrifying bits will only teach you if you have enough basics down to know what's happening. My most terrifying moments were in my little 25', 8' wide "tippy cup" boat, in 20 knots of wind and a 5' following sea. It taught me THE most important lesson: no one decides if you should sail but you. I counted on others to judge the weather and others to decide if I should sail. There was nothing tricky about that weather forecast; it was laid out clearly. My reefing system was seriously deficient and we could not safely reef the boat with the wind on our stern.

Fortunately I had read Sailing for Dummies. No, I'm not kidding. It described this situation very well. I knew to get away from the turbulent shore (in the face of tremendous protest from the person sailing with me, also a beginner); the boat tried to round up between the waves and my partner would not spill the sails when directed to do so even though it was clear to me that we were overpowered. There is a time to practice your sail trim and there is a time to keep your boat under control!

I learned a lot that day, but I remember learning the basics. It was complicated and challenging and required a lot more than the 12 hours on the water my first sailing class gave to master "first grade" sailing.

I've learned a whole lot. I can dock my bigger boat into any dock under any conditions (powerful engine, great propeller and fin keel help tremendously, but the high freeboard and big stern fight me on most points of wind). I actually sailed my boat into a slip, including a 90 degree turn, using only wind on the freeboard to steer (that was when I stopped calling myself a beginner).

It is MUCH easier to learn new skills now. Those first days sailing were really tough, not just for me but for the entire class.

What we do is great fun, slightly dangerous and occasionally terrifying, but it really isn't easy to learn to do it IMO. I think nabyt those who think it is easy to learn may have learned very gradually as children and just weren't aware of how much their parents were doing while they practiced whatever it was they were learning. They had excellent instruction, but that doesn't make it easy.
I don't get this, at least for me. I bought a little boat and taught myself to sail. I bought Sail Trim by Don Guilette and got much better. My first voyage on my own big boat ended up blowing 68 and gusting to 80. We did just fine. I suppose that some folks are naturals and some aren't. Is that a slight? No, just a statement. I never really had to think about sailing, no matter the conditions. I just sailed the boat....
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