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Old 05-05-2015, 05:33   #31
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

solo paddling a canoe from the rear thwart will sure teach you a thing or two about weathervaning in the wind, too.
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:33   #32
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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...but my best canoe/sail experience was paddling the Missinaibi River to James Bay.
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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
That really sounds exciting. I'm going to look that up on the google earth and see where you are speaking about.
Hi John, did you find it? On this particular trip we departed from Mattice, ON where it crosses the Missinaibi River. The river flows north to James Bay, joining with the Mattagami and eventually the Abitibi rivers to form the Moose River. We took about three weeks to travel the distance to Moosonee/Moose Factory.

Roughly the first 1/3rd of the Missinaibi trip takes you over classic Canadian Shield territory, but after a series of rather nasty (and long) portages past Thunder House Falls, you get down into the Hudson Bay Lowlands. Here the river gets broader, wider and shallow as it races to the northern sea. Luckily the prevailing winds are mostly at your back, so a square rig is perfect. It was quite a challenge running the many dozen rapids in catamaran form, but we sure moved well under sail.
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:45   #33
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Great story.

Like many here, my first boat was a canoe. I would occasionally set up a sail rig with lashed dagger board (paddle), but my best canoe/sail experience was paddling the Missinaibi River to James Bay. Once the river spilled down off the Canadian Shield we lashed the two boats together and rigged a stout mast. From there we used a tarp to create a reefable square sail. For the next 12 days we sailed downriver, even to the point of sailing/running the multiple class I-II raps that speckle the route.

There's nothing like sailing through a wilderness rapid to learn the joy of travelling by wind.
Mike, the Missinaibi is a great river. I have been down the river three times in the spring. It has killed a number of canoers over the last 30 years. Spectacular wilderness.
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Old 05-05-2015, 16:20   #34
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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All my early boating was on small sailboats in Ft. Lauderdale, but my wife and I took up some whitewater canoeing back in the 70's. A number of techniques important for maneuvering a canoe in strong current can be applied to managing a sailboat in current, particularly the canoeing/kayaking technique called "ferrying".
I had to google a 'ferry' in a canoe to know what this is. Now I know, 'how' do you 'ferry' in a sail boat? I struggle to even imagine how to do this?
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Old 05-05-2015, 16:25   #35
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

Exact same way as a canoe? Bow into the current, if you want transverse movement to the left, fall off to port. Transverse movement to the right fall off to stbd. Generally this is done under power, although can be done under sail. I ferry under power all the time.

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Old 05-05-2015, 17:56   #36
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

'just as FamilyVan describes! You can throtle back a little or ease the sheets to slow your forward progress to match the current and therefore, move sideways to port or starboard. With a little less power than neutralizing the current, you can control your movement in reverse and back into a slip that the current is running into, but you need a gentle touch and be ready to head up so you're not set abeam to the current.
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Old 05-05-2015, 18:35   #37
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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'just as FamilyVan describes! You can throtle back a little or ease the sheets to slow your forward progress to match the current and therefore, move sideways to port or starboard. With a little less power than neutralizing the current, you can control your movement in reverse and back into a slip that the current is running into, but you need a gentle touch and be ready to head up so you're not set abeam to the current.
Thanks to both

I'll have to try that next time I'm in such a current. There's a couple of places I know of where there is always that heavy a current. I'll practice it.
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Old 05-05-2015, 19:29   #38
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

Rustic,

You can do it either bow into the current or stern into the current.

Sailboats actually ferry really well because they have so much lateral resistance (keel).

If you don't have local rivers ( I have immediate access to epic rivers, Niagara and St Lawrence), you can play with local tides.

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Old 06-05-2015, 08:50   #39
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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Rustic,

You can do it either bow into the current or stern into the current. ............
I'll agree with this if you have a fin keel, a cut-away foot or twin engines on a power boat, but I'll have to admit that on my long keel contiguus with the rudder, I find this risky. I'm ok ferrying stern into a light current, but anything over one knot becomes very risky for me! Because of my design and conservative approach I'm almost always maneuvering bow into the current.

Wait! I see your Fantasia 35 has an underwater design like me. Is that a canoe stern that is helpful? Maybe you just have the proper touch at the helm!
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:57   #40
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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I'll agree with this if you have a fin keel, a cut-away foot or twin engines on a power boat, but I'll have to admit that on my long keel contiguus with the rudder, I find this risky. I'm ok ferrying stern into a light current, but anything over one knot becomes very risky for me! Because of my design and conservative approach I'm almost always maneuvering bow into the current.

Wait! I see your Fantasia 35 has an underwater design like me. Is that a canoe stern that is helpful? Maybe you just have the proper touch at the helm!
Just lots of practice. There is a couple knot current at my dock and my day job involves a great deal of ship handling in strong currents (I'm a professional full time captain).

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Old 06-05-2015, 11:08   #41
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Hi John, did you find it? On this particular trip we departed from Mattice, ON where it crosses the Missinaibi River. The river flows north to James Bay, joining with the Mattagami and eventually the Abitibi rivers to form the Moose River. We took about three weeks to travel the distance to Moosonee/Moose Factory.

Roughly the first 1/3rd of the Missinaibi trip takes you over classic Canadian Shield territory, but after a series of rather nasty (and long) portages past Thunder House Falls, you get down into the Hudson Bay Lowlands. Here the river gets broader, wider and shallow as it races to the northern sea. Luckily the prevailing winds are mostly at your back, so a square rig is perfect. It was quite a challenge running the many dozen rapids in catamaran form, but we sure moved well under sail.
Yes, I found it. That really looks like fun. I'm doing the Willamette River from Salem to the Columbia in Oregon which is a much shorter run which my brother (80) and myself (70) are doing just a few days at a time. You can google earth that one too and get an idea of what it's like. Only portage is at Willamette Falls.
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Old 07-05-2015, 15:22   #42
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

Interesting thread I read it b/c we've had a sail kit (ACA rig) on our open canoe for 25 years and have done some great canoe sailing -- Baffin Bay (between SPID and mainland south of Corpus Christi TX is shallow, windy, and great for canoe sailing. Present canoe is a Prospector by Merrimack.

My husband and I have done a lot of wilderness canoe trips and make a great whitewater team. About ferrying a sailboat -- it seems a natural thing to do if you've got the experience river canoeing. I've both forward and back ferried the sailboat (full keel 54' on deck) many, many times in currents between 1 kt and 4 kts. Works a charm and is the ideal way to enter a tight entrance to marina, etc in a lot of current along a river, narrows, etc.
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Old 07-05-2015, 17:19   #43
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

So.......these sailors online say I can build a sail for my canoe. I never thought of that.

Intriguing.

Ok, so engineering a mast for my canoe, consider it done.

I'm thinking maybe two inch PVC. Too flexible?

Would a sheet work for a sail? Maybe a tarp?

Talk to me!!!! Hahaha I'm so excited. I promise to sail my canoe this weekend somehow.
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Old 07-05-2015, 17:29   #44
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

IMHO micro-sail boats like canoes are a good start. I sailed in my teens, kayaked and developed good open ocean kayaking skills, then sailed a Kruger with a Balogh rig before moving up to a Tartan.

The progression allows me to read water and shoot inlets with ease. More importantly as an open water paddler you leverage the energy of the waves to make headway. I am fast learning that an efficient sailor does the same thing.
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Old 07-05-2015, 17:40   #45
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Re: Does a canoe make a sailor?

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So.......these sailors online say I can build a sail for my canoe. I never thought of that.

Intriguing.

Ok, so engineering a mast for my canoe, consider it done.

I'm thinking maybe two inch PVC. Too flexible?

Would a sheet work for a sail? Maybe a tarp?

Talk to me!!!! Hahaha I'm so excited. I promise to sail my canoe this weekend somehow.
There are lots of plans and photos for what you want to do. Do a google search. PVC is too flexible. Aluminum tubing would be much better.

My friend use Tyvek and I've seen blue tarp material to experiment with. At least a gazillion people have done it in the past so I'm certain you can too.

You need: 1) A way in which to steer, either paddle off the back of the canoe or a rudder with a tiller attached. 2) Something in the water to keep you from slipping sideways, leeboards being the best for a canoe. 3) A way of controlling the sail, a boom (another piece of aluminum or wood) on the foot (bottom edge) of your sail with a sheet (control line) to haul it in or let it out. So start looking at some sailing canoes on the web and let's hear more questions. You'll be a sailor soon.
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