Cleat failure who is responsible?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

It's not because I'm arrogant and think I'm an ace in docking our Hudson Force 50...but because I know unskilled "helpers" have a better chance of getting hurt than actually helping.

And don't have any clue how to tie a bowline..

[MarkSF]

So hard to answer, as so far I've not seen a coherent description of what actually happened.

However, my opinion is that a good skipper would anticipate the failure of something like a cleat (or a line, or the cleat on the boat), and not depend on it overly.

So many odd terms - sweating on the line, mooring winches, and so on. Makes docking sound like battle. When I dock, the boat nudges the dock, I step off, tie the lines.

In this case, it sounds like someone was hauling on a line with a lot of force when the cleat gave way, and got hurt. That's bad practice. What required the bad practice was an inability to dock the boat. I'd have thought that the skipper who was in charge of the docking is mostly to blame.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

And don't have any clue how to tie a bowline..

Why do you need a bowline for docking?

[JPA Cate]

Mark,

I think they meant bow [space] line, not bowline. Possibly someone who had an over eager volunteer pull his bow over and rammed the fire hose with it or something.

Ann

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Bingo...
My entire crew knows to NEVER...EVER...hand them the line! We politely tell them to please stand back. They usually don't listen and insist on thinking they can be of help.

Or picking up the lines that you've laid out neatly in your slip, and handing them to you in a clump, just prior to you snagging the one you need with your boat hook. Or untie the line from the cleat on the dock, to hand to you so that you can snug it on the boat cleat, and then they can pull you in to tie the dock-side cleat. Of course, the boat is too heavy and too much windage and you slowly drift away, only to start the whole dock approach scenario all over.

[SM6WET]

I think the marina is responsible.

OK, if it had been compromised and nobody said anything then it is not the marina but the marina owns it and as earlier said, with ownership comes responsibility - ESPECIALTY because they are selling the service.
The marina should have failing cleats on their PFMEA (potential Fault Mode & Effects Analysis) here they would find that to be on the safe side they must make a review/check/audit of the status of the marina cleats 2 times or whatnot a season or so and install a schedule to do this in the "serial maintenance protocol" or whatever they use.

my cents

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by SM6WET

I think the marina is responsible.

OK, if it had been compromised and nobody said anything then it is not the marina but the marina owns it and as earlier said, with ownership comes responsibility - ESPECIALTY because they are selling the service.
The marina should have failing cleats on their PFMEA (potential Fault Mode & Effects Analysis) here they would find that to be on the safe side they must make a review/check/audit of the status of the marina cleats 2 times or whatnot a season or so and install a schedule to do this in the "serial maintenance protocol" or whatever they use.

my cents

Sounds logical. But I can tell you that the liability waiver that my marina has you sign as part of the lease basically kicks back the responsibility to determine whether the marina equipment is safe or not, back to the lessor. If a cleat pulls out, it was your responsibility to tell the marina it was loose.

[contrail]

I am confused. The OP's original link says "deck" and not "dock" and clearly refers to a vessel, not a marina. In which case, I would think the owner/operator of the boat would be responsible.

[jaybird1111]

whatever happens on the boat is the skipper's fault. If the source of the problem is from outside the skipper's purvey, the skipper should have taken that into consideration and acted to compensate accordingly.

if you tie to a crappy cleat, why is that anyone's fault but yours?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

Why do you need a bowline for docking?

My point excactly. Looks like most "boaters" have factory made docking lines and no clue about anything else -. No fence..
In some places dock cleats are shared and good manners dictate you put your line benieth the others (assuming they will leave before you) Or somebody unfamiliar with the etiquete throws his loop on top. With a bowline knot you just ease the knot and of you go

[Stu Jackson]

Who should look after you when a cleat brakes on the pontoon?

Maybe they shouldn't have used the cleat as a BRAKE???

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by jaybird1111

whatever happens on the boat is the skipper's fault. If the source of the problem is from outside the skipper's purvey, the skipper should have taken that into consideration and acted to compensate accordingly.

if you tie to a crappy cleat, why is that anyone's fault but yours?

Purview?

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans

Unfortunately this is a symptom of the differences between the languages we like to call "English" on opposite sides of the Atlantic. To the inhabitants of the British Isles a pontoon is a floating component of a marina, whereas docks and quays are generally made of stone. Piers while originally made of stone , (the word "pier" is French for "stone"!), can sometimes be also made of wood, as can wharfs.
To us, a "floating dock" is something which, when filled with water a boat or ship can be sailed into. It is then closed and the water pumped out so that the bottom of the ship can be worked on.
A "slip" is a ramp which is used for launching boats on trailers.
I am constantly amused by the term "bottom paint" to refer to what we call "antifouling". Whenever I come across it I can visualise the person painting their ass (we say arse!), blue

Thanks for posting your comments above.
I enjoy learning things like that.

[Sheemgal]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Who should look after you when a cleat brakes on the pontoon?

Maybe they shouldn't have used the cleat as a BRAKE???

Sorry guys using the iPhone, fat fingers! BRAKES = BREAKS as in broken.

The cleat is a marina cleat it is on a pontoon a floating wooden pontoon just like you have stateside in docks such as Newport RI.

The bottom line: the cleat rated for 1 tonne parted from itself when a steady load was being sweated in by hand.

View the scenario:

To your left, your boat is 14 yards off the pontoon (woodon floating dock) with a bow and stern line attached to cleats. You ask for someone to help sweat the lines to bring her in.

You move the bow line off the cleat and use it merely as a fairlead by taking the bow line across to the opposite cleat on your right so we can keep everyone safe and sweat the line between the two cleats (across the pontoon) taking up on the cleat on your right (2 people sweating, one person taking up).

All is going well until BANG, cleat on right fails man on left dragged boat side and into the water. Once rescued 'looking sheepish and wet' asked what happened, "look the cleat parted from itself and as you went into the sea it missed your head by inches".

If cleats broke in the way this one did. None of us would use them.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Sheemgal]