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Old 29-06-2007, 14:53   #16
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Originally Posted by FrankZ
Does having a license increase your liability? What if you are someone else's boat and they do something stupid? Can you be held liable because you are licensed and *should* know better, or should have taken over command?


Just curious.
Excellent question, Frank.

It brings to mind the quandary of some medical doctors who have found themselves inadvertantly at the scene of a medical emergency. The doctor is obligated by his oath to render aid, but he knows that others who have done so have sometimes gotten sued when the victim's loved ones don't like what the doctor did, and hire some ambulance-chaser to drill as deeply as possible into the doctor's malpractice insurance to extract a huge cash award. It seems that only cash can heal the pain they feel.

Not surprisingly, many doctors hesitate to step forward and offer assistance in such emergencies.

So if you are aboard a ship of fools, do you assume command (and responsibility, and consequences), or do you entrust your fate to an idiot who could kill you both?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Old 29-06-2007, 15:14   #17
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The doctor is obligated by his oath to render aid
Last I checked there is no Captain's Oath. a licensed captain has no authority to assume command of a ship by virtue of having a license any more than I could stop you on the road and take over control of your car because I have motor vehicle license.

The issue with a doctor at an accident can't really ever happen in the same context, because it would be illegal for a non captain to command a commercial vessel. The act itself would be criminal. In the case of the doctor a non doctor can render aid if requested. So if I ask you would you like me to help you and you say no I am liable no matter what happens. If you say yes and I'm not a doctor then I am covered by the good Samaritan law. The doctor is always a doctor even if he is not in his office.

A captain is nothing unless he is duly in command of his vessel and then he is required to do so to the same extent I as a non captain am in charge of my recreational vessel. We both go to jail equally if we screw up similarly. I can't be fired from my job because of it but the captain can.
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Old 29-06-2007, 15:28   #18
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Perhaps the doctor analogy was not appropriate in this context. I was trying to suggest that circumstances can arise where a person must make a choice: do I, or don't I?

If a competent sailor, licensed or not, finds himself aboard a buddy's boat, and his buddy is in command of the vessel but sailing HUA, does the competent sailor take command? If he feels that by doing so he may lose a friend, but by not doing so he may lose his life, what should he do?

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Old 29-06-2007, 15:37   #19
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If a competent sailor, licensed or not, finds himself aboard a buddy's boat, and his buddy is in command of the vessel but sailing HUA, does the competent sailor take command? If he feels that by doing so he may lose a friend, but by not doing so he may lose his life, what should he do?
I'ld save my life and regret it later. I think if you know you'll die if you don't, it gets a lot easier. I wouldn't die to save a friendship.
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Old 29-06-2007, 16:17   #20
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I thought that the question might pertain to the situation of being aboard a vessel with a bunch of friends, and something happens - an accident. Would the licensed captain bear any responsibility (even if s/he were but a passinger)? Would the fact of having credentials require the licensed person to assume some responsibility - whether they act or not? I think that is a DAMN tricky question and probably take a good maritine lawyer to answer it.
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Old 29-06-2007, 16:38   #21
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the other 'overused title is Engineer - man I have seen some stretches of that title!!
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Old 29-06-2007, 19:40   #22
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Would the fact of having credentials require the licensed person to assume some responsibility - whether they act or not?
Under what authority would one assume command of a boat you don't own or are not hired to command? Given it was a pleasure boat and does not require a license by anyone what so ever just where do you fit in the overall scheme of things? "Excuse me under navigation Rule 301 I'm required by law to assume command of this vessel because I'm supposed to."

It's a boat license to operate a commecial vessel not a Naval Commission with license to kill.
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Old 29-06-2007, 22:16   #23
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pirate

Quote:
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Under what authority would one assume command of a boat you don't own or are not hired to command? .
If I were a pirate? LOL
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Old 29-06-2007, 22:44   #24
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I have seen the "Engineer" title given to.....

Deck Hands....the ones that really get me are the "Wheelhouse Engineers". Don't keep engine room logs....have clean fingernails....no scars/bruises/cuts/burns...wear chains aroung their necks and rings.....
and love to drive the boat.....I find driving a tug with a heavy tow at a couple of knots BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.... i'd rather be in MY ENGINE ROOM Keeping the Hot things Hot, Cold Things Cold, and the Engines and Auxillaries going SSBB (suck/squeeze/bang/blow).
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Old 30-06-2007, 02:38   #25
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The Ogopogo Case ~ Horsley v. MacLaren
CanLII - 1971 CanLII 2 (S.C.C.)

The case of Horsley v MacLaren, 1970, represents a controversial example of the right to compensation, and a fascinating tale of a failed rescue attempt.

A guest (Matthews), on a power boat (the Ogopogo) owned by the defendant (MacLaren), fell overboard into Lake Ontario, which caused him to have a heart attack and die.

MacLaren backed the boat up to rescue Matthews, not knowing if he was alive. Horsley jumped into the water to save Matthews but he was also overcome by the cold water.

Mrs. Jones then jumped in to help them both.

The court held that MacLaren had a duty to rescue Matthews because of a special relationship - a power boat operator owed a duty of protective care to the passengers - and if negligent, MacLaren would be liable to Matthews (or his dependents).

Horsley, on the other hand, was a good samaritan with no duty to rescue Matthews. His only recourse was against MacLaren, and his right to compensation depended on whether MacLaren had been negligent to Matthews, which the Supreme Court found not to be the case. Since MacLaren was not liable to Matthews, he could not be liable to Horsley.
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Old 30-06-2007, 02:44   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais
It's a boat license to operate a commecial vessel not a Naval Commission with license to kill.


But maybe this should be printed on the bottom of each licence?
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Old 30-06-2007, 05:37   #27
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The majority of the westcoast fishing fleet owner /operators do not have anything other than commercial fishing licenses. Which is why you avoid them at all cost. The skipper may be a 16 year old summer student operating a 75 ft. seine boat that his familly owns. Running you over is just a sport in his mind. There is a licensing program starting to be implemented now but a blind monkey could probably pass the exam. ( Stay away from Chattam Point during July and August)
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Old 30-06-2007, 05:56   #28
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The majority of the westcoast fishing fleet owner /operators do not have anything other than commercial fishing licenses. Which is why you avoid them at all cost. The skipper may be a 16 year old summer student operating a 75 ft. seine boat that his familly owns. Running you over is just a sport in his mind. There is a licensing program starting to be implemented now but a blind monkey could probably pass the exam. ( Stay away from Chattam Point during July and August)
I have noticed this more and more.

I was rasied to believe that commercial fishermen are some of the most experienced sea going people out there. As I've been on the water longer and longer, I've noticed this isn't the case.

What I normally see is a guy who races out each day, tends his traps or does his long-lining, and races home. Granted these aren't the fleet that go out deep water fishing in the North Atlantic, but these coastal fishermen don't seem to follow the rules of the road correctly and are often out in quite leaky vessels with only the minimum mandated safety gear.

They are prudent in that they stay home when it's rough out here, but they sure aren't as "salty" as I had thought.
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Old 17-09-2007, 19:45   #29
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Hey...new captains have to start somewhere. Some start with a 6-pack and some with a 100 ton. I don't see the need for ripping into newly licensed captains. One really needs to examine the individual before making gross generalizations.

All the people I have met who made the effort to get their ticket to operate smaller pleasure craft for hire have seemed like pretty level headed, reasonably experienced and knowledgeable people.
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Old 17-09-2007, 20:03   #30
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You obviously took my original post waaaaayy to seriously.

Book Learned Captains are just that.......nothing more nothing less.

The difference is in the QUALITY not QUANTITY of their sea time. IMHO
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