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Old 10-02-2016, 17:02   #76
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

It is clear that most, if not virtually all, of us would do "the right thing" and help. Just be mindful that you need to do it right with what you have, because if things go badly an owner or insurance company might (operative word being might) find a way to blame you. I think being a Good Samaritan has a lot of cache, but it was the fact that the bad ones existed that makes the story so appealing. Admittedly, I live in a litigious and too often greedy culture, but if you do it right with what you have to make it better, you should be OK even with the suited sharks.
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:10   #77
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

This is a much more tricky issue than one might believe.

I am constantly torn over this conflict. I have taken steps to attempt to save someone's boat, knowing full well, that I could get in trouble over it. I am willing to take that risk.

However, I will not board someone else's boat to silence halyards, as that is clearly trespassing solely for my benefit.

It is the nature of many people (myself included), to offer help unsolicited.

Notwithstanding, boarding a boat without permission is trespassing.

Nobody has any right to board anyone's boat without permission.

If you board someone's boat, you could get shot, if they mistake you for an intruder. Fortunately, we don't have many boaters packin' heat at our marina, or I'd likely have holes. ;-)

When I leave my boat, I tie off my halyards (usually).

If I am sleeping on my boat, I may leave them untied.

First, I enjoy the sound of lightly slapping halyards, as I do wind chimes.

Second, I use them as a wake-up alarm that the wind has picked up, so I should check the lines and fenders.

When a slip neighbour mentions my halyards were noisy, I politely explain my reasons, and that is usually that.

They actually have no god given right to absolute silence.

Minor halyard slap is a far cry from imminent risk of damage; it would generally take quite some time in very high winds. In the kind of wind that would cause rapid damage, nobody is gonna be sleepin' anyway.

In many cases, I don't believe boarding someone's boat to prevent halyard slap is for the noble purpose of helping the owner. It is more likely solely for the boarders own personal comfort.

Another, non-invasive solution without boarding someone's boat without permission, is to put in ear plugs. Or if one doesn't like the sounds of boats in a marina, they can choose to be somewhere, or do something, else.

Even the best of intentions can go wrong.

If one adjusts lines because a boat is bumping a dock and that boat comes loose in the night, (or is left hanging at low tide) then the question is whether it damaged because they touched it and did something wrong.

All I can say is, nobody is welcome to board my boat to prevent halyard slap.

I would be appreciative if they fixed a problem that would cause imminent damage, as long as they did it right and didn't cause even more damage.

Once I was launching a boat on a steep ramp. I backed to the crest of the ramp and stopped. I had already removed the security chain on the bow eye.

A fellow I knew who was watching, hollered forward that we would trip my winch lock, AS HE DID IT!.

My boat then slid off the trailer and skidded down the concrete ramp into the water to the end of my winch strap.

I was very upset, and questioned why he did that without ask permission to mess with my property first, and give me the opportunity to say NOOOO!

When we first started boating we had a few occasions while docking, where strangers (and even friends unfamiliar with our docking procedures) offered to take docklines, who have caused way more harm than help.

We have had "The Docking Talk", with our slip neighbours, who now know what to do to "help us" when we come in to our regular slip.

When we come up to a dock and a stranger offers to take a line, we ask them to stand clear, up forward and "fend off the boat" if it comes too close to the dock. They feel like they are helping, and we don't have somebody pull a boner that hurts rather than helps.

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Old 10-02-2016, 17:15   #78
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
...

When I leave my boat, I tie off my halyards (usually).

If I am sleeping on my boat, I may leave them untied.

First, I enjoy the sound of lightly slapping halyards, as I do wind chimes.

Second, I use them as a wake-up alarm that the wind has picked up, so I should check the lines and fenders.

When a slip neighbour mentions my halyards were noisy, I politely explain my reasons, and that is usually that...
Don't be "that guy". What a pisspoor neighbor!
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:27   #79
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

I took a spare anchor and rode and a anchored a boat that broke loose from a homade mooring. I left a note on it and he came by and thanked me I helped him redo his mooring and got my anchor back. I did accept half of the money he so dearly wanted to give me. it made him feel like he was helping me. It seems many people think I'm down and out. took a spare pump to an other boat and pumped it out. turned out a hose was leaking and the seacock was froze up, I put a plug in and didn't see the owner for the five days I stayed there, I sailed off and left the plug, used the same anchor on an other boat that was bahamian moored and chaffed one of the anchor lines. he swung over on the other anchor and was up against another unattended boat I re-anchored him and when he showed up he got pissed and wouldn't give my anchor back. the next year, when I returned, I saw that boat in the mangroves sunk and the guy was homeless......Karma...I haven't needed much help like that but it has come to me. that's not why I help, tho...to get any thing...I just feel better when I do it. there are some people who are perpetual victims. it takes time to recognize them. I try to show them a better way, but short of life threat I have to let them hit their own bottom.
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Old 10-02-2016, 17:33   #80
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

If I can help, I help. If I can't - I don't.
Pretty straightforward, really.

Lawyers & lawsuits? Well, one of the great advantages of cruising is the ability to hoist sail and skedaddle out of the country.


Catch me if you can.

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Old 10-02-2016, 17:40   #81
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

[QUOTE=ramblinrod;2042171

When a slip neighbour mentions my halyards were noisy, I politely explain my reasons, and that is usually that.

They actually have no god given right to absolute silence.

[/QUOTE]

I stopped reading at this point when it became clear that you are at a minimum a bad neighbor.
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Old 10-02-2016, 18:27   #82
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

There are always reasons not to do the right thing. In my old marina most of the owners lived hours away. I frequently put my extra lines on boats and adjusted lines to keep boats off the dock during gales. If I get sued. I get sued.


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Old 10-02-2016, 19:06   #83
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

I have fixed some serious problems in other boats. If I see an obvious need, it is obvious that I'll help if I can.

You should first find an answer to this question. Would the owner of the boat want you to help? If the answer is yes, you will try to help.

There is a risk of answering this wrong question. Should the owner of the boat want you to help? Don't use this one, use the first one. The point is that it doesn't matter what you think the other person should think. He may well have a different opinion. You might even end up helping him e.g. in order to show how he should have tied his boat. That would be bad behaviour.

If there are places where there is a substantial risk of getting in trouble with insurance companies, lawsuits, or someone shooting you because of trespassing, you should consider also these matters before you go.
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Old 10-02-2016, 20:45   #84
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

Continuing reading this thread has made me think more about what I have done. For instance, I would not adjust someone else's dock lines. I would take a line from my boat, and add to the lines on the other boat, if by doing so, I could reduce her chafe, during strong winds. Which can be done without boarding her.

It's too bad if someone ties up his boat poorly, but if his boat damages itself, and the owner wears that, one hopes he or she would learn from the experience. It is not my job to butt in unless (a) I'm looking after someone's boat in their absence; (b) the boat belongs to a known friend; or (c) the vessel in question is about to endanger another; and I feel similarly about the boats with the furlers coming undone. If the owner doesn't care enough about his sail to make sure it is properly secured, I'm not sure that's my job.

It does sound cold hearted, and I would always move to save the boat of someone I know, even for property damage, like the sail. It just seems that if he or she hasn't found out what to do, it will provide the impetus for learning that lack of curiosity caused something bad to happen. I guess I have more faith in that person learning to modify his behavior on the basis of something that happens to him (experience), than I do of his learning to modify his behavior following someone saving him the hard bits of the experience.

Finally, Boatie, the guy who went north of you to avoid giving you a tow: what an IGNORANUS!! (def.: stupid a**h**e)

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Old 10-02-2016, 21:04   #85
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

I lived in Petoskey,MI where the marina is wide open to the W/ NW. I have spent up to 90 minutes adding my lines or retying boats slamming into the dock with the surge. I am sure the owners who lived hours away thought it was the municipal Marina who did it. It was risky to jump on a surging boat and retie lines under pressure. The owner tied them when the conditions were benign. I support food stamps so I don't feel guilty that someone is hungry. If you don't feel you should do it, don't.


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Old 10-02-2016, 21:15   #86
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Don't be "that guy". What a pisspoor neighbor!
Well, it could easily be argued that if one doesn't like the sound of boats and docks creaking, and wind whistling through shrouds and slapping halyards, maybe they should pick a different pastime.

It's a boat.

Geesh.
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Old 10-02-2016, 21:48   #87
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

I am constantly surprised by the number people who assume that physical violence is legally permitted in the protection of property. Throwing someone you found looking in your cockpit lockers off your boat is assault and battery. Even if proved, trespass is a misdemeanor. Assault and battery is normally a felony.

Not many boats sport a No Trespassing sign. In many jurisdictions, to engage in illegal trespass you have to be directly told not to go onto a piece of property or there must be a prominent No Trespassing sign.

Finally, there is "Benevolent Trespass" an exception used, for example, when someone goes onto private property to put out a fire.
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Old 10-02-2016, 22:02   #88
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Continuing reading this thread has made me think more about what I have done. For instance, I would not adjust someone else's dock lines. I would take a line from my boat, and add to the lines on the other boat, if by doing so, I could reduce her chafe, during strong winds. Which can be done without boarding her.

If the owner doesn't care enough about his sail to make sure it is properly secured, I'm not sure that's my job.


Ann
I think what you say is the best thing to do regarding dock lines. Add to existing dock lines if you think there's a need but don't adjust them. Adjusting someone else's dock lines may be based on good intentions but in the case where someone did that for me, it would have damaged my boat if I hadn't come by and notice it before the next low tide. But I can't see where adding additional lines could ever cause a problem.

I secured a flailing jib on someone else's boat this last fall. I was going out to my boat and saw it starting to come unfurled as I was about to pass by. It was a boat on a mooring and besides the fatal damage that the sail would have done to itself in the strong winds that existed, it would have started the boat sailing around it's mooring, possibly bumping into the adjacent boats and damaging them. So I felt like I should go aboard and refurl it with a couple of wraps this time and with the furling line secured properly. But you raise a good point that by me doing that, the owner of the boat probably didn't learn anything. You do have to force yourself to be very methodical and careful because being aboard an unfamiliar boat with jib sheets flailing wildly and knocking things around is a good way to get hurt. Best if you can have someone with you, just in case you get knocked in the head or trip or slip while trying to help. But I couldn't just dinghy on by and watch that boat get damaged and its jib self destruct.

The owner may care very much about his sail but just lack the knowledge that an old salt like you takes for granted. Rather than just fixing the problem I probably would have done him a greater favor by going to see him afterwards and explaining what I had done and why it was necessary. I actually had noticed that boat with it's last 2 or 3 feet of jib left unfurled all summer and it made me a little uneasy but I was reluctant to be offering unsolicited advice to an older man. But since I felt I was a little bit at risk by dealing with his thrashing jib and jib sheets, I think I've earned the right so if it's left like that again next summer, I'll make it a point to go visit them when the owner is aboard and explain how/why to properly secure his jib.
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:25   #89
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Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

Extra dock lines should be available topsides for others to use in case of high winds. In our marina, we expect others to use them to double up on dock lines as needed. May want to knock first though before going onto someone's boat.
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Old 11-02-2016, 07:44   #90
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pirate Re: Boarding Neighbors in a Storm

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

Finally, Boatie, the guy who went north of you to avoid giving you a tow: what an IGNORANUS!! (def.: stupid a**h**e)

Ann
It has its funny side looking back..
Silly sod came down to the boat as we were tying up and casting off the Lifeboat.. and when he came out with that the CG officer and the Harbourmaster had to physically hold me back Ahahahahahahhaaaa...!!
And.. not only did they rescue me.. prevent a GBH charge.. they caught the bazturd who'd rammed me and run on top..
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