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Old 30-12-2012, 01:25   #181
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Selection is not random. Here is a good example involving E.coli...

Now, more than 30,000 bacterial generations later, Dr. Lenski and colleagues have what is becoming one of the most striking examples of repeatability yet. All 12 populations show the same patterns of improvement in their ability to compete in a bottle and increases in cell size. All 12 have also lost their ability to break down and use a sugar, called ribose.

More surprising, many genetic changes underlying these adaptations are very similar. Every population, for example, lost its ability to break down ribose by losing a long stretch of DNA from the same gene.


Ophrys apifera (Bee Orchid) did not randomly grow to mimic it's main source of pollination. A random-mutation occurred which proliferated due to natural selection. They are two parts of a system and saying natural selection is random is incorrect.
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Old 30-12-2012, 01:35   #182
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Good onya blackoak, live your dream. Phooey to the dogmatic.
Love the freshness of your pen.
Fuel for the push to get my boat back in the water.
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Old 30-12-2012, 01:53   #183
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

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Good onya blackoak, live your dream. Phooey to the dogmatic.
Love the freshness of your pen.
Fuel for the push to get my boat back in the water.
Right...got a little off track there for a minute. Hope the adventures turn out well and keep us posted. You see what happens when you develop a few followers and leave them to there own devices.

I have a Seafarer myself that I'm hoping to take down the west coast this coming year, though I'll probably take someone a little more experienced than myself the first time out.
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Old 30-12-2012, 02:15   #184
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

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Selection is not random. Here is a good example involving E.coli...

Now, more than 30,000 bacterial generations later, Dr. Lenski and colleagues have what is becoming one of the most striking examples of repeatability yet. All 12 populations show the same patterns of improvement in their ability to compete in a bottle and increases in cell size. All 12 have also lost their ability to break down and use a sugar, called ribose.

More surprising, many genetic changes underlying these adaptations are very similar. Every population, for example, lost its ability to break down ribose by losing a long stretch of DNA from the same gene.


Ophrys apifera (Bee Orchid) did not randomly grow to mimic it's main source of pollination. A random-mutation occurred which proliferated due to natural selection. They are two parts of a system and saying natural selection is random is incorrect.
I've read Lenski's paper, which is quite famous. That experiments are repeatable does not in any way suggest that natural (as opposed to artificial) selection is non-random. The reason why natural selection is random is (as I already pointed out above) is that the selection events are random. Lenski fixed the selection event to show what can happen when the random factor is artificially removed.

Orchids and bee orchids, figs and fig wasps, and all other symbiotic flora/fauna pairs evolved along a random path because they evolved in response to random events, such a lightening strikes, floods, famines, droughts, etc. If there were not a random component, there would be only one symbiotic flora/fauna pair.

Do you agree or disagree that random events occur in nature?

ps: To keep the discussion light and fun, here is an evolution joke:
Q: Why do some people not believe in evolution?
A: Their ancestors were in the control group.
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Old 30-12-2012, 04:28   #185
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Some people are risk takers, and others are not. If he is willing to risk his life, I say go for it. It will be an adventure only dreamed about by so many. I have taken risks like this,for example, walking acoss wild Africa with a compass and a map in the 1980's. I would do it again in an instant. Was it dangerous, yes, was I scared, yes, could I have died, yes. But the adventure, I could never have from an armchair.

Go for it. Don't be a " I wish I had".
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Old 30-12-2012, 04:35   #186
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Sweet, we have our own Petri dish experiment called BlackOak.

It is not pride that goethe before the fall, it is lack of training, preparedness, skill, experience, and planning.

Someone interviewed Sir Edmond Hillary, and asked him how he climbed Everest, and he said, he was just walking around. Not.
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Old 30-12-2012, 04:55   #187
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pirate Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Mate..... theres one hell of a difference between pottering up the ICW at 30 miles a day and taking a small boat along the Cornish coast and around Lands End.... ones sheltered waters and the others wide open to the Atlantic winds and swells.
Another thing... always viewed that mishap with a dash of suspicion...her being a millionairess and all...
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Old 30-12-2012, 04:59   #188
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GaryMayo have you Ever done anything adventurous?

When do you NEED training to do things? You don't. Learn as you go. It can be a much longer road, deadly in fact, but you are on the way.
Americans are the result of natural selection. Explorers and risk takers found the original ways though the land, followed by the tamer farmers. I bet they would have laughed if told that they need more training, or what about insurance.
People worried about terrorists in some places that I have lived. I told them that they are more likely to die in their bathtub, then from a terrorist, so are they going to stop taking baths?
I see people almost every month who have done what Blackoak is doing, or who are just starting to do it. Better than sitting at the dock with their would of, should of, could of stories.
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Old 30-12-2012, 05:13   #189
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

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Originally Posted by david7 View Post
I have a Seafarer myself that I'm hoping to take down the west coast this coming year, though I'll probably take someone a little more experienced than myself the first time out.
A good idea, not simply for having a bit more experiance onboard (although I would caution about not over relying on others, as their "bit more experiance" than you might still not be good enough in all circumstances!).........but whatver own experiance level also having a second pair of hands and eyes (plus the company - including for the WTF do we do now discussions!) does make a trip easier and likely more pleasant (depending on the people!).

Will look out for your thread .
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Old 30-12-2012, 05:22   #190
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For $%&# sake most if his travels thus far are coastal, hes been cautious, again some of you "sailors" irritate the living sh%t out of me with your pompous arrogant ways those of you who look down disdainfully cause a dock lines not tied perfectly correct, or the teak isnt oiled just so, or the sail trim isnt just right. I have sailed since i was 5 , my first experience was taking off across a 50 mile lake gone for 10 hours mom crapped herself police were called etc. I sailed back (miracuously) to everyones surprise. I dont pride myself on expertise i still ask questions all the time sometimes knowing the answer but wanting reassurance, i dont judge or put down others or give unwanted advice if not asked. If i was that type of guy id be a golfer. I guess some just leave the training wheels on their bikes until they have their drivers license. Real nice thread drift you —---- fill in the blank.
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Old 30-12-2012, 05:22   #191
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Really....and people wonder why sailors are often referred to as pompous.

Yes there is a science to sailing but it doesn't take a phd to sail. The art is the adventure.

People did this over 2k years ago, crossed oceans in strapped wooden boats, had no weather forecasts, and even suspected the world ended at the horizon.

This guy is not crazy, dumb, and clearly not incompetent. He has already accomplished more than most "sailors" will ever find the nerves to do.....set out on his dream.

Oh side note....you interested in natural selection should watch Idiocracy.
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Old 30-12-2012, 06:41   #192
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Ran into this thread while searching about Bermuda routes. I read the entire thing, most of which is time well wasted, but I must say I give you 3 thumbs up for balls and sense of adventure. Something too many of us have lost or never had. I started reading and made judgements, then turned into laughter and fun, and finally admiration. Keep it up!!
What you are trying to do is not that complicated. It does take a bit of time and know how. Keep reading and researching along with "trying it out" and you'll get there.
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Old 30-12-2012, 07:28   #193
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Actually Gary,

Sir Edmund's response was,"because it is there"
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Old 30-12-2012, 08:13   #194
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

I am surprised at some of the responses on this thread (and some other threads). Concerns with safety and rules and regulations and insurance etc now generally seem to override freedom, excitement and adventure. Some people seem to suffer lives of "quiet desperation" and give nothing but discouragement to someone giving life a go in an unorthodox manner. I have cheered Blackoak since his early posts. He is an adult and quite capable of making his own decisions.
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Old 30-12-2012, 08:21   #195
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Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

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I am surprised at some of the responses on this thread (and some other threads). Concerns with safety and rules and regulations and insurance etc now generally seem to override freedom, excitement and adventure. Some people seem to suffer lives of "quiet desperation" and give nothing but discouragement to someone giving life a go in an unorthodox manner. I have cheered Blackoak since his early posts. He is an adult and quite capable of making his own decisions.
The point which always makes me shake my head is the one about considering RESALE value when BUYING the damn boat.This is like considering how much a hang-over will hurt in the morning, when starting on getting rummed-up the night before.
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