Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 29-12-2012, 11:00   #166
Registered User
 
GaryMayo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Branched Oak Yacht Club, Wife is an Admiral in the Nebraska Navy
Boat: Clipper Marine 32 CC Aft Cabin Ketch
Posts: 1,211
I have friends here, and I saw what seemed to me a great possibility of a prank on my friends. Now it seems to have become more accurately described as a journal of the way not to do things.

If a first time driver was doing burnouts with a V8 and no drivers ed, no insurance?, would we all be giving him at a boys, keep it up, it will get better? Who is this insurance company covering this learning curve? My insurance agent is a member here, John, you want to insure this guy?

My first sailboat was on a small city lake on a ten foot sail boat. Three years and three sailboats later, and countless books read, I was still on the same lake, learning. That was 30 years ago.

I wish him all the best, but the way to learn sailing is not as he has been doing it, and the folks here encouraging him to continue to learn the improper way is pushing him towards disaster I fear. Disaster for himself, or other people.

Remember the lady that just remarried her rich farmer husbsnd, and her wedding gift was a 28 foot sailboat? Remembered how that turned out when she headed out into blue water without the proper experience?

This young man, if he is our friend, we need to tell him to gain the proper education and experience before his adventures overwhelm him and his next tow service will be with him in absentia.
__________________

__________________
W.I.B. Crealock when asked what he thought of the easily trailerable Clipper Marine sailboats by a naval design collegue, Gentelman Bill responded, "I am very proud of them".
www.clippermarine.org & www.clipper-sailor.net
GaryMayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 11:23   #167
Senior Cruiser
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Gary, I get your point, but I don't believe Blackoak is taking any extra ordanary risks currently. When he first shoved off is a different story. If you have been following Blackoaks adventure in this thread, I believe he has come a long way (knowlage wise) in a very short time, by learning from others and doing his home work. I don't believe he heading directly to Bermuda today. He is taking baby steps in the Gulf then around to the Atlantic coast. He is taking his time, going only during daylight, about 30 miles a day and then only when the weather is mild. What extreme risks is he taking and what extreme risks are we incouraging?
The way I see it, is we are rather incouraging Blackoak to keep it up, Safely. I don't believe it takes 30 years of sailing on a lake before someone can learn to sail. I personally never took a leason on sailing. Everyone has a different learning curve and way of learning. After all we arn't talking about flying the space shuttle here.
__________________

__________________
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 18:53   #168
Registered User
 
jeanathon's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WNC mountains U.S.
Boat: 1968 Hinterhoel Redwing
Posts: 513
+1 It did not even take me 30 years to learn to fly a plane although one is never done learning. Didn't even take astronauts 30 years to learn to fly the brick.
Sounds like sour grapes Gary. Maybe blackoak will take you on as crew.
__________________
Let's ban together to ban sillycone....
jeanathon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 19:03   #169
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
The way I see it, is we are rather incouraging Blackoak to keep it up, Safely.
I hope that's what we are doing!

I figure that OP is old enough to learn and make own mistakes. and then learn some more . and if not succesful? well, IMO that is down to him........

.....could be that he simply ends up with a story about an attempted (or succesful ) trip to Bermuda and that is the end of his boat voyages and then moves onto other adventures - but IMO that would not be a failure in itself.

Time will tell...........
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 19:18   #170
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,202
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Thats the beauty of boats and sailing... its the last illusion of freedom left to man...
Biking offered that years back... but that slowly disappeared...
Go for it Blackoak.... ignore the naysayers... and don't let the slow motoring put you off.
Once you've mastered the sails and technique, hammering along at 6+ knots with the sea washing along the toerail and the vibe of the boat its almost as good as taking a Katana 1100 down a winding B road at 100mph plus....
Its a real Buzz..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 19:32   #171
Registered User
 
Sumner's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SE Utah
Boat: 1981 Endeavour 37 & 1990 MacGregor 26 Classic
Posts: 370
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
.........could be that he simply ends up with a story about an attempted (or succesful ) trip to Bermuda and that is the end of his boat voyages and then moves onto other adventures - but IMO that would not be a failure in itself.

Time will tell...........
Yep, he has tried, more than many can say. It might or might not end up being his thing, but at least he is going to know at some point.

I think the idea of getting on a boat and sailing off to far off lands sounds like a good idea when you are in a life's situation that might not presently be so enjoyable. Once on the boat it might not be what you envisioned and that is ok if you can still recover gracefully from it.

We took friends out for 3 days once that were all excited to go and would of been just as excited to get back to land the next morning. At times on here and on other boards people post about selling everything they have and buying a boat and leaving their present homeland. That might be fine and well, but a number of them haven't even lived on a boat for a week before making this decision .

Black Oak did the above to a degree, but I think he can get back out of this situation if at some point he feels that this isn't his destiny with less pain than someone who sold everything to get into it. I'm hoping he sticks with it for a while longer and gives it a fair shake. He has jumped in with both feet into a lot deeper water than most would and I can feel for his stress and anxiety level at this point. I think just a little more time on the water will do a lot for that.

I think right now he is a hero to a lot of people who wish they could just jump in themselves,

Sum
Sumner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 20:26   #172
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

G'Day Blackoak,

As an armchair cruiser I applaud you and your "give it a go" attitude. I have no doubt that you will have fun and exceed your dreams..
__________________
pprentice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 20:29   #173
Registered User
 
rakedfront1's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Boat: West Wight Potter 19
Posts: 27
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

"Remember the lady that just remarried her rich farmer husbsnd, and her wedding gift was a 28 foot sailboat? Remembered how that turned out when she headed out into blue water without the proper experience?"

....this seems like a good story to learn from.....do you have a link to it....I would like to read it .....thanks
__________________
rakedfront1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 20:39   #174
Senior Cruiser
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumner View Post
Yep

I think right now he is a hero to a lot of people who wish they could just jump in themselves,

Sum
I think a lot of us enjoy reading about Blackoak because most of us can relate to him in one way or another. We were at one time new to sailing or boating, we were at one time scared, bord, and tired. Many of us wish we could do what he is doing. A lot of us will only dream of doing what he is doing. To hear someone put it on the forum so honestly, and frankly is refreshing.
__________________
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 20:43   #175
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Finally took the time to read through the entire thread and must say 'entertaining'! My advice from an old seadog is to keep at 'er, BlackOak... you'll find the cruising world which you have entered is thousands of miles long and about a mile wide so you are bound to run into a great bunch of Folks like Capt Shelley, Bill and Fred who will be happy to lend you a hand or their advice when it is really needed. The friendships and aquaintances you make will last a lifetime and for the larger part are more sincere and deeper than you find shoreside... fair winds and following seas to you... cheers, Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2012, 22:23   #176
Registered User
 
GaryMayo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Branched Oak Yacht Club, Wife is an Admiral in the Nebraska Navy
Boat: Clipper Marine 32 CC Aft Cabin Ketch
Posts: 1,211
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-vanished.html


This lady was experienced though older and rusty.

I bet she wishes she had gotten hooked up in crab pots and needed towed back in.

I have less sailing experience than most on this board. I have never been in water unable to see a shoreline. I have never been in waves the height of my freeboard. I have never read a chart, never used a marine band radio. Never sailed at night, never sailed in strong winds. Never packed food for an over night trip. Never slept on a sailboat. Never done any of the things any good blue water sailor does without thinking. So you old salts think people like myself can just aquire a sailboat, unchecked by anybody that knows boats, and just head for blue water?

Are you guys crackers?

In living beings, there is something called natural selection. The lady sailor was a case in point. I don't care to read about any natural selections here in this thread.

In the moment, inexperience and lots to do, create an overwhelmed state called a saturation point. My first three times flying, on take off, I was saturated to the point, no further learning was possible because I was at my maximum at that point.

In a sailboat, at sea, with so much coming at you, a level of saturation existed. He did not like sailing at that time, because he was beyond his control level.

You guys want to send him back into that? Really? Who is the bigger _ _ _ _ here? Fill in the blank.

Photo of the dead woman's boat, before the rocks ate it, and her. Looks almost exactly like the sailboat from this adventurous thread.

Click image for larger version

Name:	article-0-1595DE1A000005DC-454_634x421.jpeg
Views:	509
Size:	96.7 KB
ID:	51875
__________________
W.I.B. Crealock when asked what he thought of the easily trailerable Clipper Marine sailboats by a naval design collegue, Gentelman Bill responded, "I am very proud of them".
www.clippermarine.org & www.clipper-sailor.net
GaryMayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2012, 00:08   #177
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Boat: Seafarer Tripp 30
Posts: 82
Natural selection is not inside living beings. It is a non-random process through which biological traits become more or less common and those traits are not always progressive. You couldn't watch it happen in your lifetime and you definitely couldn't see it on an online forum. Sometimes people do stupid things and sometimes they have bad luck but attributing it to natural selection is a little off the mark.

More to the point we are talking about someone who wanted to sail, bought a sailboat, and went sailing. No one should feel guilty for giving him encouragement along the way. What happens happens. It is his life to live.
__________________
david7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2012, 00:27   #178
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
In living beings, there is something called natural selection. The lady sailor was a case in point. I don't care to read about any natural selections here in this thread.
It's only natural selection if the host organism dies before it reproduces or fails to be selected by a mate i.e. in other words if the genes are not deposited back into the gene pool. For humans, natural selection is largely over because modern social arrangements ensure that virtually everyone can survive to reproductive age and then reproduce, even with the presence of a mutation that is harmful both to the host and to our species. To put it more colorfully, we are defecating in our own gene pool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by david7 View Post
Natural selection is not inside living beings. It is a non-random process through which biological traits become more or less common and those traits are not always progressive. You couldn't watch it happen in your lifetime and you definitely couldn't see it on an online forum. Sometimes people do stupid things and sometimes they have bad luck but attributing it to natural selection is a little off the mark.
That's close, but natural selection is a random (stochastic) process and the London Underground Mosquito is a good example of natural selection that we can see in our lifetimes. Despite genes passing in both directions between the population of London Underground Mosquito and the population of ordinary English mosquitos (as mosquitos occasionally fly into and out of the Tube), the two populations have almost completely speciated (most offspring are sterile).

Quote:
Originally Posted by david7 View Post
More to the point we are talking about someone who wanted to sail, bought a sailboat, and went sailing. No one should feel guilty for giving him encouragement along the way. What happens happens. It is his life to live.
As long as he is not a danger to others and no one is forced to involuntarily subsidize his voyage, I completely agree. Like many here, I'm enjoying reading his posts and wish him well.
__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2012, 00:41   #179
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Boat: Seafarer Tripp 30
Posts: 82
Genetic variation and mutation are random but the selection by definition isn't.
__________________
david7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2012, 01:04   #180
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: Attempted Trip to Bermuda

Quote:
Originally Posted by david7 View Post
Genetic variation and mutation are random but the selection by definition isn't.
Selection is also random because selection is determined by random events -- unless one believes everything is predestined (that the gods built the universe as a "clock" that, once set in motion, is completely predictable). Whether or not an organism which doesn't look before crossing the road gets hit by a bus is random. Whether or not one meets a mate attracted to one's collection of genes is random. All selection events have a random (stochastic) component.

Unfortunately, the theory of natural selection is typically taught in schools by teachers who don't understand it. Thinking that organisms reproduce and that DNA is a mechanism by which organisms reproduce necessarily leads to confusion. What's really going on is that DNA reproduces and organisms are a (circuitous) mechanism by which DNA reproduces.
__________________

__________________
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Bermuda, bermuda

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bermuda Passage in Hurricane Season 3reefs Atlantic & the Caribbean 5 13-02-2012 20:12
Weather Along Route to Bermuda mrybas Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 17 31-10-2011 05:39
Crew Available: How Hard Is it to Find a Ride on a Boat ? Yves Crew Archives 8 16-08-2011 18:12
Bermuda Layover? mrybas Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 04-08-2011 20:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.