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Old 09-08-2010, 18:42   #106
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Hello there,

My family agrees that it is perfectly ethical to post this dreadful woman's name on a public 'No Crew' list. Indeed it would be a public service!

Best,

"Yog"
I agree with the sentiments. But posting the name could open them up for a lawsuit. If it was me, I wouldn't post it.

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Old 09-08-2010, 18:46   #107
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Ah so, never thought of the dreaded L word. Word-of-mouth name-whispering is best in this case.

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Old 09-08-2010, 20:27   #108
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Word of mouth makes total sense as it happens like wildfire amongst cruisers. Would it be illegal to post her photo and name with a do not take on as crew at every marina you stop at?? there must be post it boards at every laundry or dock area that has a place to staple it on.. This way, it will notify any and all possible seekers of crew and no one has to know who put it up.. But, I believe that EVERYONE should know of this cretin!!
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Old 11-08-2010, 13:42   #109
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Thank you to everyone who commiserated. Especially, thank you all for not telling me what a stupid ass I was not to have got rid of her in Gibraltar. I can assure I wasn't so kind to myself. This was my first attempt at taking on unknown crew. Until now, I've always sailed with friends I've known for years. I was stupid to trust the word of an acquaintance, even though I respected his sailing ability. A lesson learned there. I suspect that taking on unpaid crew is fraught with problems at the best of times and I'm leaning towards the paid crew option, at least they come with checkable references and the long range trawler world is small, decent crew get recommended by the other owners. The downside is, paid crew add a sizeable chunk of $$$ to the budget


Many people commented on my giving her a ticket home. The legal side of things would not have prevented me dumping her. Gibraltar is a British Crown Colony or something like that and she had a UK Passport so she was entitled to be there., Likewise, the Canary Isles are part of the EU and any citizen of the EU can travel and work freely in any of the States. The moral responsibility to repatriate crew is something else. I've seen people abandoned in a port and I know of others. One woman was left with the clothes she stood up in down in Tierra del Fuego.(sp?), too tired to check it right now. I think that if you can afford to pay a ticket for someone you have employed, you just have to do it. It doesn't matter how bad they turn out, leaving castaways was something the civilized world long ago left behind.


Let me ask one more thing in this thread. How much per annum would a competent crew member expect as remuneration, taking into account that we all eat the same food, live in the same standard of stateroom. We're talking about an EU or US citizen here. The existing crew who are my friends, all pull their weight, stand the same watches, help with maintenance and repairs, can all navigate and handle a big boat very competently.


P.
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Old 11-08-2010, 13:51   #110
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Hi,

It was not stupid of you at all to take the word of someone you know, nor even to take an unknown. Most people are decent and would not give you this trouble.
It was just your rotten - rare - bad luck and that's all there is to it!
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Old 12-08-2010, 20:46   #111
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It doesn't matter how bad they turn out, leaving castaways was something the civilized world long ago left behind...,,,,


Let me ask one more thing in this thread. How much per annum would a competent crew member expect as remuneration, taking into account that we all eat the same food, live in the same standard of stateroom. We're talking about an EU or US citizen here.

P.
To an extent I agree. However, you really have to look at the overall threat to the well-being of your boat, criminality and out-right maliciousness of the individual in your post. It is poignant that the amount of narcotics involved in many countries could have been considered a commercial quantity that could have landed the persons in possession in prison if not executed . Australians are well aware of this danger and the consequences especially when travelling to Indonesia and Thailand.

I would also not be surprised if the person was using the passage on your boat to “run” drugs or at least sell off the remainder. It just sounds a bit to me like she started smoking a bit too much of her own cargo. As such, although the world is arguably more “civilised” I still believe there is a place for dumping castaways. Instead of stranded on some tropical paradise incarcerated in a nice foreign gaol is a possible option?

With paid crew I would be using a contract that states something like any such serious criminal behaviour or acts including assault and/or threats of such and/or reckless or negligent behaviour will result in instant termination of the employment and the offender will be left at the next practicable port to their own devices etc…..,,,,,,,
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Old 20-08-2010, 15:30   #112
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Fishwife, if you are talking 24/7/365 liveaboard crew with all food and visas paid for by the vessel's owner.....most of the younger (25 yrs old and under) crew could be found for $10-$15,000 a year. They tend to go for 'the adventure' vs older 30yr+ folks who go for the 'job'. I worked for the owners of a 70ft motoryacht for a year inclusive of all expenses in 2004 for $20,000. I was essentially responsible for the entire upkeep of the vessel, supervising 2 other crew, cleaning, galley, heads, staterooms, exterior of vessel and engine room maintenance logs (not the actual engine maintenance); as well as watch standing my share of helm duty. The owners were a middle aged couple, and he liked a few hours on the helm daily but no more. She did not care to do anything aboard, and just relaxed. When they had to tie up in Florida for an extended period of time they hired me to liveaboard the vessel as the husband got an overseas assignment. Once the realization that they were going to be gone for a few years got to them they decided to sell the vessel. It worked out for them because I had kept the vessel in BRISTOL condition inside and out and the first buyer to set foot onboard bought the boat 'as is'. Which I took pride in even though it left me looking for new digs.
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Old 22-08-2010, 02:06   #113
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Sorry to hear of your ordeal

It's a terribly shocking story and I'm glad to hear that you are safe and have taken it so graciously. I think most cruisers are pretty warm, mellow, trusting folks and it's absolutely horrid that you were endangered by someone placing you, your vessel, and crew in jeopardy.

I remember a recent on-line discussion about people considering jobs as crew on superyachts. The gist of it seemed to be that monthly salaries ran about $2000/L1300 for deckhands and stewardesses, $4000/L2500 for technically qualified people (mates, junior or smaller-vessel engineers), and $5000/L3200 to $8500/L5500 or so for masters, depending upon the size of the yacht.

I understand the difficulty in finding crew and know that it keeps far too many boats in the harbor and not out where they belong. I know this sounds odd, and not what people would normally do, but would there be any possibility that in the future you could test whether potential crew would agree to take a drug test?

You have all my sympathy and best wishes for never having anything like that occur ever again.
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Old 22-08-2010, 03:02   #114
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Once again, thank you all for your comments and support. We're underway and within 2 days of a landfall at Plymouth. This is the first time ever where I've been longing for the end a trip. Two of my long time friends who are members of the crew were so frightened by the brush with customs that they've decided not to do any more cruising.
I'm seriously thinking about selling the boat and getting something smaller that whilst still ocean capable, can be handled with two people. I'd just look to take on an extra person for the long hauls across an ocean.

P.
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Old 22-08-2010, 03:15   #115
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Paige
Dont give in and let some jerk win.
You found a real bad un in her but not everyone is like that. Use the experience to hone your choosing skills and next time recognise the fool amongst the crowd of good people
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Old 22-08-2010, 03:20   #116
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I don't know how I missed this whole thread!
I guess we were at sea when it started.

Paige, I am so sorry to hear all about this!

I'm glad all is now well.

It certainly is the horror story.



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Old 22-08-2010, 14:12   #117
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I'm seriously thinking about selling the boat and getting something smaller that whilst still ocean capable, can be handled with two people. I'd just look to take on an extra person for the long hauls across an ocean.

P.
While my posts might seem a bit arrogant please don’t get me wrong as I really feel what has happened to you is tragic and I would hate to see someone so good hearted give up cruising. As above, my strong stance on the matter stems from having similar run-ins with individuals who have been immersed the drug culture.

Nonetheless, I do think your though of downsizing to a boat that can be handled by a couple with room for another or maybe even couple is a sensible idea. I have actually been amazed at the number of experienced sailors who have looked at my smaller boat and honestly stated they would be happy to downsize to something of a similar size for the sake of enjoying their cruising instead of the monotony of having to service, man and sail a bigger boat. Big is obviously not always better?

(Then you could always take my slightly prejudiced philosophy of “no room for mutineers”, again noting that Captain Bligh was a much misunderstood and exceptionally capable seaman)
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Old 22-08-2010, 15:49   #118
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Reading all this and the replies as well, I am glad to be a solo sailor.

The vomiting over the instrument panel I can understand. Playing with the fuelline valves in the engineroom I cannot and had returned the lady immediately to the shore, whatever the distance.
Once I took a non-confident crewmember on board for a long voyage.
Halfway the Northsea his vomitting did not stop and I turned around and brought him back ashore. I lost a day but a big problem as well.
This is good fuel for a book.
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Old 23-08-2010, 10:25   #119
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Yes, it's plain from her email that is what she intended. She didn't know we had thrown it out.
P.
Wow, what a weasely little shithead?! Aren't we still allowed to rack and/or flog crew members for gross negligence/incompetence. No?! Well we should be! When the anger has simmered down a bit you will definitely want to review your lessons learned here. What a horrible experience.

You might want to make personal property inspection a required thing. When acting as crew for a friend, acquaintance or stranger I expect to have my bag inspected. Before ever stepping onto someone else’s boat I always offer to turn out my bag for inspection. Personally, I just think it’s the respectful thing to do and for those who complain I would just say get over it. People need to be cognizant of the captain’s liabilities.
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Old 23-08-2010, 11:38   #120
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My head is just spinning after reading this. Even if she had no work ethic, even if she had no experience- where in the heck was her self preservation streak? Jacking around with the engine and smoking in her cabin makes me think she was suicidal. You would hope that even in the face of absolutely no experience, Darwinism would kick in at some point.
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