Zika and adult brain damage

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by thruska

Methinks it's your comfort level that's disturbed. Or perhaps truth hits or hurts.
You behaved the same way in out her threads.
Not everyone accepts everyone else's views.

What is at issue is not differing views but the personal attacks some think are ok to make. In another thread on a somewhat controversial subject I have been insulted. And I have responded in kind. I have never instigated insult but have stayed on topic and only talked directly to the subject at hand. Yes I have directed insult towards this or that so called expert. But I have never started attacking an individual poster on this forum. But I have reacted in my own defense after being attacked.

My comfort level is not disturbed regarding discussion about issues. My comfort level is definitely disturbed when it comes down to uncalled for abuse and venom directed towards me. There is no element of truth in the attacks on me by a few. And as I have said I have not started attacks on posters. Only defended myself with equal vitriol.

That I will no longer do since I choose not to be trolled by these people. That is why I am out of here. It has nothing to do with me being thin skinned or not. This forum has quickly become an un fun place to be and I refuse to be openly trolled by bullies.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Agreed! 100%.

But my wife's question... Why on a cruiser's sailing forum??

Something tells me this may be the tip of the iceberg!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

My final post to you.

I am not the "type" consumed by fear and worry as you say of me. I have no need to question my mental and physical stamina to deal with adverse sailing situations as you say. I do not post doom and gloom as you say. Others on one long thread I started who seem to have followed me to this thread, are the doom and gloom ones. I am the one who doesn't accept their sky is falling view of things.

Even on a post about nutrition and exercise while sailing I am attacked by these doom and gloomer's who think it is OK to be verbally abusive to me rather than write coherently about the subject. No they would rather attack and insult me.


You question my stamina and strength of mind. I have more capability to deal with emergency situations then you would ever know. I have a bravery award from the Royal Human Society for kicking in a front door, running into a house on fire and pulling out an elderly man from the top floor bedroom.

I have attended crash victims and was the only skilled to handle the emergency and yes save lives. The last one was an overturned car wreck with leaking gasoline where I crawled into the vehicle to aid in the drivers extraction.

At age 14 my first rescue as a civilian I dived into the ocean and swam out to a group of 5 people caught in a rip. It was off the southern coast of Australia. Large surf. I was able to stop them from panicking, they were going under. Got them to tread water until surf rescue arrived.

I was kidnapped and held prisoner by terrorists. Had the good sense to get out of that without outside help.

I've survived a carjacking by 4 armed assailants in South America and escaped unharmed. " although my car did suffer some damage.

I have made no attacks on you. I have not cast dispersions on your mental state or your abilities. I have not called into question anything about you as a person.

Do you seriously think your behavior here towards me as a poster is warranted and appropriate?

Yikes....

Based on your expressed concerns, I only suggested you might want to rethink your commitment to the cruising lifestyle.

The rest.... is your imagination.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

My final post to you.

I am not the "type" consumed by fear and worry as you say of me. I have no need to question my mental and physical stamina to deal with adverse sailing situations as you say. I do not post doom and gloom as you say. Others on one long thread I started who seem to have followed me to this thread, are the doom and gloom ones. I am the one who doesn't accept their sky is falling view of things.

Even on a post about nutrition and exercise while sailing I am attacked by these doom and gloomer's who think it is OK to be verbally abusive to me rather than write coherently about the subject. No they would rather attack and insult me.


You question my stamina and strength of mind. I have more capability to deal with emergency situations then you would ever know. I have a bravery award from the Royal Human Society for kicking in a front door, running into a house on fire and pulling out an elderly man from the top floor bedroom.

I have attended crash victims and was the only skilled to handle the emergency and yes save lives. The last one was an overturned car wreck with leaking gasoline where I crawled into the vehicle to aid in the drivers extraction.

At age 14 my first rescue as a civilian I dived into the ocean and swam out to a group of 5 people caught in a rip. It was off the southern coast of Australia. Large surf. I was able to stop them from panicking, they were going under. Got them to tread water until surf rescue arrived.

I was kidnapped and held prisoner by terrorists. Had the good sense to get out of that without outside help.

I've survived a carjacking by 4 armed assailants in South America and escaped unharmed. " although my car did suffer some damage.

I have made no attacks on you. I have not cast dispersions on your mental state or your abilities. I have not called into question anything about you as a person.

Do you seriously think your behavior here towards me as a poster is warranted and appropriate?

Wow!!!...unbelievable...really...
I once stubbed my toe and put on my own bandaid. Does that count?

[SaltyMonkey]

Once, when I was in a restaurant in Berkeley eating bananas, a waiter came up to me with the check.

I almost didn't pay.

Then, I was brave and paid for it.

honest.

[barnakiel]

Personal attacks are not OK. Neither here nor in the real world.

Neither original nor retaliatory.

If you find a poster that attacks you personally for whatever reason, hold back, click disregard, or ask a moderator to have a peek at the case.

There is an effective mental exercise though I think not easy to make at the Forum: for 5 minutes switch the roles and discuss as if you had the other person's take. I taught this in a small group when we were asked each to bring one problem solving skill to the table.

Try it. If only in your heads. It may work.

All we need is love & srubb creole,

Cheers,
barnakiel

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by thruska

Thank you , I do take that advice.
The question of the patent was for your stimulation not mine , I know who has patents, do you ?

I don't know of any Zika related patents, if that is what you mean. I'm pretty sure that the actual virus that was isolated in the 40s or 50s is not patented (requires novelty and expires in max. 20 years + doubt if organisms can be patented in the first place). It's possible, I guess, that a technology relating to some new strain is patented. But since you know, please tell me (with a verifiable reference, preferably)!

My main point was further explained in my previous post: There are many, many research papers on Zika available online, without paywall even. There's no reason to resort to low-quality, conspiracy touting websites for information if one wants to educate him/herself on the subject. Of course if the assumption is that all researchers are in on some global conspiracy then there's no point and one is free to indulge in the apparently very satisfying conspiracy theories.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Sandibar

I don't know of any Zika related patents, if that is what you mean. I'm pretty sure that the actual virus that was isolated in the 40s or 50s is not patented (requires novelty and expires in max. 20 years + doubt if organisms can be patented in the first place). It's possible, I guess, that a technology relating to some new strain is patented. But since you know, please tell me (with a verifiable reference, preferably)!

My main point was further explained in my previous post: There are many, many research papers on Zika available online, without paywall even. There's no reason to resort to low-quality, conspiracy touting websites for information if one wants to educate him/herself on the subject. Of course if the assumption is that all researchers are in on some global conspiracy then there's no point and one is free to indulge in the apparently very satisfying conspiracy theories.

Sorry, we will agree to disagree. Alternative internet sources are available for your patent search if you really wish to know. So is alternative medicine information. And alternative sailboat propulsion.
And alternative thinking....
Research papers also have history of being falsified.
If you think conspiracies don't exist you are definitely in that Ostrich syndrome.
Likewise you are free to indulge in whatever trips your trigger.

[weavis]

In the past few years more professionals have come forward to share a truth that, for many people, proves difficult to swallow. One such authority is Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world.

Dr. Horton recently published a statement declaring that a lot of published research is in fact unreliable at best, if not completely false.

“The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.” (source)

This is quite disturbing, given the fact that all of these studies (which are industry sponsored) are used to develop drugs/vaccines to supposedly help people, train medical staff, educate medical students and more.

It’s common for many to dismiss a lot of great work by experts and researchers at various institutions around the globe which isn’t “peer-reviewed” and doesn’t appear in a “credible” medical journal, but as we can see, “peer-reviewed” doesn’t really mean much anymore. “Credible” medical journals continue to lose their tenability in the eyes of experts and employees of the journals themselves, like Dr. Horton.

He also went on to call himself out in a sense, stating that journal editors aid and abet the worst behaviours, that the amount of bad research is alarming, that data is sculpted to fit a preferred theory. He goes on to observe that important confirmations are often rejected and little is done to correct bad practices. What’s worse, much of what goes on could even be considered borderline misconduct.

Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine” source

I apologize if you have seen it before in my articles, but it is quite the statement, and it comes from someone who also held a position similiar to Dr. Horton.

There is much more than anecdotal evidence to support these claims, however, including documents obtained by Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD, from the Neural Dynamics Research Group in the Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences at the University of British Columbia, which reveal that [B]vaccine manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, and health authorities have known about multiple dangers associated with vaccines but chose to withhold them from the public. This is scientific fraud, and their complicity suggests that this practice continues to this day. (source)

This is just one of many examples, and alludes to one point Dr. Horton is referring to, the ommision of data. For the sake of time, I encourage you to do your own research on this subject. I just wanted to provide some food for thought about something that is not often considered when it comes to medical research, and the resulting products and theories which are then sold to us based on that research.

It’s truly a remarkable time to be alive. Over the course of human history, our planet has experienced multiple paradigm shifting realizations, all of which were met with harsh resistence at the time of their revelation. One great example is when we realized the Earth was not flat. Today, we are seeing these kinds of revelatory shifts in thinking happen in multiple spheres, all at one time. It can seem overwhelming for those who are paying attention, especially given the fact that a lot of these ideas go against current belief systems. There will always be resistance to new information which does not fit into the current framework, regardless of how reasonable (or factual) that information might be.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Sandibar

... Of course, if you believe in a global conspiracy of the CDC, WHO, individual researchers and Monsanto ...

Monsanto is a company regularly mentioned in online eco-conspiracy theories. But the truth is that Monsanto is not involved in any way in the sale or manufacture of pyriproxyfen, which is made by a Japanese manufacturer named Sumitomo Chemical.

➥ Clearing The Air: Monsanto Breaks Silence On Zika Virus, Microcephaly And Sumitomo Larvicide : HEALTH : Tech Times

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by thruska

Sorry, we will agree to disagree. Alternative internet sources are available for your patent search if you really wish to know. So is alternative medicine information. And alternative sailboat propulsion.
And alternative thinking....
Research papers also have history of being falsified.
If you think conspiracies don't exist you are definitely in that Ostrich syndrome.
Likewise you are free to indulge in whatever trips your trigger.

Sure we can agree to disagree! However, I'm not sure if you are making a claim that the Zika virus is patented and that this is somehow connected with the recent problems in Brazil? If so, it would be great to have a link to such information (btw, the link you posted earlier stated that the authors had not found such info). I'm also not sure what alternative sources would provide when national patent databases have all the relevant information - there are no secret patents, that's the whole point of a patent: making an invention public and giving the patentee exclusive rights for economic gain from the invention for a limited period of time.

Of course there are alternatives for everything. I'm sure there is value in alternative medicine, I have first hand experience in TCM myself. Doesn't discount the huge improvements modern medicine and medical research have done to the lives of people with access. Alternative propulsion for boats? Based on mainstream science.

Documented conspiracies of course exist and absolutely many that we don't know about. WHO, CDC, global research community and Monsanto... don't buy it without clear evidence, which is nowhere to be found.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Monsanto is a company regularly mentioned in online eco-conspiracy theories. But the truth is that Monsanto is not involved in any way in the sale or manufacture of pyriproxyfen, which is made by a Japanese manufacturer named Sumitomo Chemical.

➥ Clearing The Air: Monsanto Breaks Silence On Zika Virus, Microcephaly And Sumitomo Larvicide : HEALTH : Tech Times

Actually Gord.... they have working together for a number of years despite the 'official' record. I hold no faith or trust in corporate comments.

************************************************** *******
Monsanto Company (NYSE: MON) and Sumitomo Chemical Company, Ltd. today announced a new global agreement that will focus on developing and delivering next-generation weed control solutions to further help growers manage tough-to-control weeds.

Monsanto has a robust pipeline of multi-generational herbicide trait upgrades in its research and development pipeline that are designed to provide multiple and additional modes of action for weed control well into the future. This includes PPO-herbicide tolerance traits, which are in the early phases of research and development and are expected to be included in Monsanto’s future generation multi-herbicide tolerant trait stacks. In addition to its existing portfolio, Sumitomo Chemical has been developing a new generation PPO chemistry that has shown broader spectrum control with application flexibility that has the potential to enhance current and future weed control systems.

Under the new global agreement, Monsanto and Sumitomo Chemical will work together and in parallel to create an integrated system of germplasm, biotechnology and crop protection that will represent this new generation of weed control solutions. As part of this, Monsanto and Sumitomo Chemical will collaborate in the development, registration and commercialization of Sumitomo Chemical’s key PPO chemistries including its new generation PPO herbicide for over-the-top and conventional herbicide application use in Monsanto’s future generation weed management systems, as well as conventional applications for certain other crop uses. The new generation PPO herbicide is expected to be available within brands offered by both companies. By working in parallel to develop multiple aspects of this enhanced weed control solutions that has the potential to benefit all major global field crops, the agreement will leverage both companies’ capabilities, including Monsanto's strength in integrated field testing and development. The next-generation herbicide is expected to be commercially available early in the next decade, pending regulatory approvals. Additional details of the agreement were not disclosed.

“I’m really excited about Sumitomo Chemical’s next generation weed control technology,” said Robb Fraley, Monsanto Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer. “This next-generation PPO herbicide has remarkable broad spectrum effect against both grass and broadleaf weeds, which will make it an excellent, complementary addition to the Roundup Ready® platform. The product’s low use rate, together with a unique mode of action effective against resistant PPO weeds, will be valuable to corn, soy and cotton growers.”

Ray Nishimoto, Sumitomo Chemical Representative Director & Senior Managing Executive Officer, President of Health & Crop Sciences Sector, said, “This collaboration combines the strength of Monsanto to discover and develop herbicide tolerance traits with Sumitomo Chemical's world-class discovery program for new crop protection products that are highly effective for sustainable weed management.”

This announcement builds on the strong collaboration the two companies have had for many years through the Roundup Ready PLUS® Crop Management platform to bring farmers the best-performing herbicide solutions to manage tough and resistant weeds.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Monsanto is a company regularly mentioned in online eco-conspiracy theories. But the truth is that Monsanto is not involved in any way in the sale or manufacture of pyriproxyfen, which is made by a Japanese manufacturer named Sumitomo Chemical.

➥ Clearing The Air: Monsanto Breaks Silence On Zika Virus, Microcephaly And Sumitomo Larvicide : HEALTH : Tech Times

Tech Times would seem to be the place to go for PokemonGo info if nothing else.....

Meanwhile '"Monsanto does not own Sumitomo Chemical Company," the company wrote in an email. The Japanese firm, however, has been Monsanto's business partner since 1997 in the sector of crop protection.'..... which involves aerial spraying close to populated areas which leads to birth defects..... ask the indigenous population of Missiones, Argentina, how they feel about it all...

[El Pinguino]

In fact... see how they feel about it all.. The photos of how glyphosate is killing Argentinians

Monsanto ... Brasil... aerial spraying...birth defects?? Whatever.....

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by weavis

In the past few years more professionals have come forward to share a truth that, for many people, proves difficult to swallow. One such authority is Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world. ...

Absolutely there is a shitload of bad research out there, also fradulent research. I read research articles all the time, albeit in social sciences, and there's a lot of crap out there. A single paper carries little weight, when it comes to policy formulation. AFAIK medical policy and treatment recommendations are mostly based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of large numbers of existing research AND budgetary concerns. Not a fool proof method, but what is the alternative?

There were serious problems associated with the avian flu vaccine administered to a large part of the population here in Finland a few years back. I myself had complications from TB vaccination as a child. Still, the risk for an individual is small and my family has gone through the whole national vaccination program and then some (lived for years in Asia). For me the benefits far outweigh the risks and I do trust the local government in setting the standards more than I would trust my own (non)expertise on the subject, or any internet pseudonym's for that matter.

There is a healthy discussion going on about the publish or perish system in place in many scientific disciplines and there will hopefully be some kind of paradigm shift in the system coming. But it has to come from within the scientific community itself. Again, what is the alternative? Alternative cures administered by self taught practitioners, without properly documented or standard procedures and limited evidence of effectiveness? In China traditional herbal medicine is institutionalized and taught and researched at universities, which I think is great and lends graduated TCM doctors and the treatments some credibility. There have also been spillovers to mainstream western medicine. Not that I would go to a TCM doctor with anything more serious than a persistent flu myself

Edit: to wrap up with something more in line with CF: put the boat on the hard for the winter today after a great two month cruise around the Baltic. Too many house and work projects to enjoy the often crappy September boating weather close to home this year