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Old 28-10-2009, 01:27   #931
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Wow, it is great to hear from someone who knows her It is very apparent that she is a remarkable girl. Though I think the route she has chosen is a very bad idea (sorry), now that she is out there I am praying for success and safety. Thank you for your insight, and again, it is nice to meet someone who knows her.

Godspeed Jessica, and Pink Lady.. take care of your captain

Erika
Thank you Erika for your sentiments. Jessica is a very special person. Jessica's family are also very fine people, well repected by eveyone who knows them. They have nothing to gain from this whole exercise except to support a very special daughter in her dream. Her father gave up employment, to work full time on the refit of the Pink Lady. He put in 7 day weeks for months, as his goal was to have the boat as safe as he could humanly make it. I guess this was his way of coping with the thought of what she was going to do. I would think most Dads would do the same. I think he was a bit emotional after the collision and again I think that is perfectly natural. I do not believe he is a liar!!! All the facts are not yet in about the collision and won't be until the final report in 6 months time.

This is my first entry to this forum. I have been reading it with increasing dismay for some days! I was suprised to read in the forum of the comments about Jessica's teeth. What relevance her appearance has to her trip is lost on me! I was very interested in the set of rules as I registered. I wonder whether it would be useful for some of your members to re read them?

I also know this girl and her family very well!. I am amazed at the misinformation and idle, unfounded speculation, put forward, and then picked up on as fact by other members.
To suggest some of the things that have been said is mind boggling! Do you really believe that Jess and her team are perpetrating a fraud? And that she doesn't intend to endeavour to circumnavigate the world solo, unassisted? She may not succeed but she is jolly well giving it a good try!
Jess is being tracked by EVERYONE who needs to know her exact position, including the relevant Maritime Authorities, may I suggest it just isn't any of your business? All your members and the rest of the world needs to know are approximate positions. And Yes! Jess doesn't need helicoptors buzzing her and drenching her and taking the wind from her sails, this has already happened!

Jess WAS sailing when the carrier and her boat collided. Jess did everything needed to make the boat secure after the collision, with a cool head, in the dark, in the middle of the night, including cutting away damaged rigging that was hanging overboard and risking her safety. I have not personally seen Jess shimmy up a mast, but have seen several photos of her doing so, she is very fit, very brave and also very determined! The Water police were full of her praises for what she did out there on her own, and how she brought herself in. One of your members suggests that the preliminary report that says Jess was sailing is incorrect, but is prepared to take as gospel other rubbish and hearsay, such as a scribbled note that Jess had doodled on was her log for her trip?? Excuse me! - newspapers need to make money and the best way to do that is to create a controversy. For example. I watched a TV interview of Jessica's mother which also featured a person, unknown to the Watson family who was asked about his views on whether Jess would make money out of this adventure. He said in reply that she would make millions. His opinion! The next day's newspapers both in Australia and New Zealand had Jess' mother making that statement not him!

To address a few mistakes in this forum. Jess is being sponsored by Bob McDavitt. He is not being paid by her. He will be assisting and advising Jess during the voyage. He knows and respects Jess vey well and has assisted her with weather advice on other occasions. Roger Badham is NOT advising Jess, he has been employed by a Sunshine Coast newspaper to report weekly on the weather Jess is likely to experience.

Jess is only now going into her second week of her trip. Where does the three weeks of non tracking claimed in thread #796 come from?

Pardon me? Whats this talk about a support boat? Or if you repeat an incorrect thing often enough does it become fact?

Jess wants to just get out there and sail around the world! She doesn't really care about the record, anyone who believes that needs to think again. There is no animosity between the sailors who have already done this (Jesse Martin, Mike Pearham, and Zac Sunderland) nor is there with the American girl Abby, and Jess. They understand each other and that the record is the means to an end, to achieve the sponsorship which is needed to make the trip!

Please stop bagging Jess and her family! And to finish off Sven, I think, who was querying Pink Lady's speed. Jess was doing up to 8.5 KTs on Tuesday, according to her blog.

Sorry this is such a long blog/thread. You may not even publsh it. I guess you have been having fun over the last few weeks with your threads, but please remember that sometimes its at another person's expense!
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Old 28-10-2009, 02:13   #932
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This thread is getting seriously close to the end of its useful life. If no one has anything intelligent to add, or cannot resist indulging in personal attacks, then there is no good reason to keep it open.

Many members have gone so far over the line that it may be impossible to return this thread to any semblance of being a worthwhile exchange of on-topic information. If this continues, you can be sure this thread will be closed.

Come on, sailors and cruisers, you're better than this.

TaoJones
This would have to be the best post on here.

When, I 1st started sailing I was struck by all of the nice friendly cruisers we met, everyone was helpful & friendly always willing to lend a hand. This thread on Jessica has really opened my eyes. I think Ive been lucky and only met the nice guys. The bitterness shown by some of the anti Jessica team amounts to slander, now suggesting she is doing a Donald Crowhurst beggers belief. (really thought the teeth were the last straw.BTW. MarkJ when are you opening your dental surgery, the fact you can diagnose teeth by looking at pictures on the net has really impressed me."she must have a sweet tooth, just look at her teeth")
But apparently the rules on this forum are, if they are in the public eye, go for it. Members are a protected species, and can say what they want.
To the people who are friends of the Watson family may I appologise for the inane comments posted about her and the family, the nay sayers and critics are fortunately in the minority. I ve already mentioned somewhere along the line, to have a look at the Jessie Martin DVD and see all the critics lining up saying the same thing as the critics on here, you ain't saying anything original.

I can understand why the "Wheels" fell off now, and the minniweenie wants to get out as well.
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Old 28-10-2009, 03:20   #933
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Hi Glenn, and thanks on behalf of the Watson family! I think your experience about friendly cruisers is mostly right. They are usually, in my experience a bunch of really special people with a 'brotherhood of the sea' mentality. Jess' experience with the people at the marina in the GoldCoast is a perfect example. How they rallied around and worked night and day to get Pink Lady back in the water after the collision.
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Old 28-10-2009, 04:22   #934
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Sorry this is such a long blog/thread. You may not even publsh it. I guess you have been having fun over the last few weeks with your threads, but please remember that sometimes its at another person's expense!
Yes. I think this young girl and her supporters are doing all this at other peoples expense. And you to jump astride you high horse like that proves a few things in my mind.

Goodbye.
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Old 28-10-2009, 05:04   #935
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Yes. I think this young girl and her supporters are doing all this at other peoples expense. And you to jump astride you high horse like that proves a few things in my mind.

Goodbye.

Good point Mark. Jessica knows very well that she could never have even made the starting line without the generosity of her many, many sponsors, both 'big time' and 'little'. It says a lot about Jess that people are prepared to make their money and expertise available to this young woman. No business person worth their salt would do this without confidence in the person they were sponsoring.

I am not on my 'High Horse' as you put it, just a little intrigued at what the threads reveal about the authors. Some of it not pretty!
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Old 28-10-2009, 05:06   #936
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Yes. I think this young girl and her supporters are doing all this at other peoples expense. And you to jump astride you high horse like that proves a few things in my mind.
Mark, that is quite irrational. (again)
Sponsorship is a normal way of trying to achieve an extreme goal that is outside of the possibilities of the finances of one person. It is up to the sponsors to decide the merits of the spending of their money.

As i have tried to explain before, major failure is not a good outcome of sponsorship (advertising) budget, which means that even if you have a negative opinion of this adventure, the sponsors, family and friends dont.

I have no connection with Jessica and her venture, but just by pure coincedence had dealings with one of Jessicas Mentors. I can assure you that the person I had contact with and the overal thought and preperation (this is all proir to you knowing anything about it) was/is of a very high standard. In fact the experience of the people involved may just be more than yours.

( I add this as a reasonable critisism....I have no doubt that there are posts that are well within the unreasonable boundaries of flaming and out right trolling..... The sad fact that the last few inteligent posts have been made to try and yet again mitigate the "fun" that a quite a few cf regulars have been perpetrating makes this site a much lesser place......
......a place that is taken far less seriously because of it..when some of the most radical sailing sites on the internet have a more balanced discusion than here.....you know you have a problem)...
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Old 28-10-2009, 05:46   #937
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This comment was made by a CF moderator on page 2 of this thread - how quickly people forget...

Not sure that the issue of whether the motor was running is not even relevant. It's clear from the preliminary report that the collision was not caused by one or other vessel's intepretations of the power vs. sail right of way rules. Jessica admits not being aware of the ship, so the issues to be addressed (by those with full knowledge of the facts) don't relate to how she was propelled at the time.
Actually, it would make a difference. If she were steaming, the ship clearly had right-of-way, as we know from a rudimentary understanding of the rules of the road. To wit:

The Danger Zone - Boat operator positions are normally on the starboard side of the vessel. The danger zone is an area that extends from dead ahead to 22.5 degrees aft of your starboard beam. This is the same arc illuminated by your green navigation sidelight. The concept of the danger zone is that if you see another vessel approaching yours from within this zone, they are likely to be privileged or have the right of way. Having the operator on the starboard same of the boat affords an unobstructed view of the danger zone.

Read more: http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/avoiding_boat_collisions#ixzz0VEHUhBQP

Since the father's initial statements were patently false, one has to wonder how he came to say what he did. Either a) Jessie lied to her father (in her sat phone call to him immediately after the collision) and he simply related her false report, b) she told him the truth and he chose to lie in his public remarks c) the two jointly concocted a false story. Am I missing something? Is there another explanation for what was said?

The ATSB could clearly determine her speed and course from the AIS. The one critical thing the authorities would have had difficulty verifying independently is whether she was under power or sail at the time of the collision. At night, the ship wouldn't necessarily have known.

In my mind, this makes everything these people are saying suspect. But, for the record, I don't believe she's faking it ... that seems a bit over the top. I still find it odd that her position isn't being related.
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Old 28-10-2009, 06:30   #938
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The ATSB could clearly determine her speed and course from the AIS. The one critical thing the authorities would have had difficulty verifying independently is whether she was under power or sail at the time of the collision. At night, the ship wouldn't necessarily have known..
The ATSB finding is a finding of fact. Are you suggesting they dont know how to investigate a marine incident or that they are careless with their conclusions.

She was sailing, the independent investigator said so.
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Old 28-10-2009, 06:38   #939
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The ATSB finding is a finding of fact. Are you suggesting they dont know how to investigate a marine incident or that they are careless with their conclusions.

She was sailing, the independent investigator said so.
Not at all. First, this was a preliminary report. Unless the ship independently confirmed she was under sail (which we do not know from the preliminary report), the ATSB had to take her word for whether she was sailing. As has already been mentioned, unless she was surfing some big swells, which the report makes no mention of, 7kts is a pretty healthy clip for a boat with a theoretical hull speed less than that.

So, Factor, is the answer a, b or c?
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Old 28-10-2009, 07:30   #940
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From Jessica Watson - youngest ever to sail around the world today:

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Jessica has been moving along at over 8 knots for most of the last 24 hours.
It will be great to see that her position has been advanced around 190 NM in 24 hours ... oh, too bad, I forgot that her position has to be kept secret !


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Old 28-10-2009, 07:32   #941
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G Morning all, looks like she has obtained the 1000 mile mark... One of many to come..

Hopefully later on we will be getting waypoints soon...
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Old 28-10-2009, 08:13   #942
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Fraud, fake, cheating - absolutely nonsense! She is out there, she is real and she has signed contracts with all her sponsors. It is normal for such sponsorships to include the right to use her name and her journey for advertising purposes in exchange for the money they paid. She also has to abide by the "standards" set for such a journey or the sponsors would be very upset as they could not use her name, etc. in advertising if she was discredited which would also reflect very badly on the reputations of the sponsors. She has to make the attempt honestly and faithfully to the best of her and the boats abilities and there is absolutely no logical reason she would default or cheat. Crazy idea.
- - Her route is very logical and planned to maximize success for the time/season and expected weather conditions. There really isn't much variation possible since many have preceded her and it is known what currents, winds, gale probabilities, ice, etc. problems might arise. Her routers are professionals and they are not about to send her on anything other than the route with the best chances of success. There reputations are also "under the gun."
- - The modern world is getting more and more paranoid about everything, everyday. Posting her daily positions is not difficult since she has a separate transponder that keeps her support team informed of her location just as all the participants do in many high end round the world races. It is old technology. Whether the support team is putting that information on their website - might - involve a discussion of her security both from news media and maybe even assorted "nuts" who might wish her harm. Many world cruisers have and use Winlink and other systems to keep their position available to loved ones and friends automatically on a daily basis - it is also old technology.
- - I feel the valid discussions include:
- her abilities/boat skills/physical and mental strength to complete her quest;
- her mistakes and successes and why they occurred (this is valuable as we all can learn from other's mistakes and successes);
- her initial motivation and subsequent modified motivation - after accepting all the money and assistance.
- her motivation to embark on a very commercially sponsored endeavor rather than do it "quietly". And all the implications now that sponsors are going to require something for their money.
- And what we would or would not do if we wanted to embark on a similar endeavor.
- As stated personal attacks on personalities of the debaters is "trolling" and not fulfilling the idea of discussing all of the above so we all can learn or share knowledge. Such "flaming" is better posted on L&A or CL forums where that is their stock and trade. Humor and satire is also acceptable as it lightens the discussions or points out some who have "tunnel vision" on the topic and not viewing the "big picture" or contributing new aspects of the discussion. It is also very good at marking a point in the discussion where it is now time to move to a different aspect to discuss. Jessica Watson is a fully "public figure" and thus accepts the "heat" of being in the kitchen. She could have done it non-publicly and preserved her privacy. But she chose to go "very, very public" and that is also a valid area for discussion and comparison to others who have done or want to undertake a similar quest.
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Old 28-10-2009, 08:30   #943
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Fraud, fake, cheating - absolutely nonsense! She is out there, she is real and she has signed contracts with all her sponsors. It is normal for such sponsorships to include the right to use her name and her journey for advertising purposes in exchange for the money they paid. She also has to abide by the "standards" set for such a journey or the sponsors would be very upset as they could not use her name, etc. in advertising if she was discredited which would also reflect very badly on the reputations of the sponsors. She has to make the attempt honestly and faithfully to the best of her and the boats abilities and there is absolutely no logical reason she would default or cheat. Crazy idea.
- - Her route is very logical and planned to maximize success for the time/season and expected weather conditions. There really isn't much variation possible since many have preceded her and it is known what currents, winds, gale probabilities, ice, etc. problems might arise. Her routers are professionals and they are not about to send her on anything other than the route with the best chances of success. There reputations are also "under the gun."
- - The modern world is getting more and more paranoid about everything, everyday. Posting her daily positions is not difficult since she has a separate transponder that keeps her support team informed of her location just as all the participants do in many high end round the world races. It is old technology. Whether the support team is putting that information on their website - might - involve a discussion of her security both from news media and maybe even assorted "nuts" who might wish her harm. Many world cruisers have and use Winlink and other systems to keep their position available to loved ones and friends automatically on a daily basis - it is also old technology.
- - I feel the valid discussions include:
- her abilities/boat skills/physical and mental strength to complete her quest;
- her mistakes and successes and why they occurred (this is valuable as we all can learn from other's mistakes and successes);
- her initial motivation and subsequent modified motivation - after accepting all the money and assistance.
- her motivation to embark on a very commercially sponsored endeavor rather than do it "quietly". And all the implications now that sponsors are going to require something for their money.
- And what we would or would not do if we wanted to embark on a similar endeavor.
- As stated personal attacks on personalities of the debaters is "trolling" and not fulfilling the idea of discussing all of the above so we all can learn or share knowledge. Such "flaming" is better posted on L&A or CL forums where that is their stock and trade. Humor and satire is also acceptable as it lightens the discussions or points out some who have "tunnel vision" on the topic and not viewing the "big picture" or contributing new aspects of the discussion. It is also very good at marking a point in the discussion where it is now time to move to a different aspect to discuss. Jessica Watson is a fully "public figure" and thus accepts the "heat" of being in the kitchen. She could have done it non-publicly and preserved her privacy. But she chose to go "very, very public" and that is also a valid area for discussion and comparison to others who have done or want to undertake a similar quest.
points well taken -- the first in particular, which may go to her father's bluster after the collision. I guess others don't see it, but I thought his remarks, given what was later in the report, were truly disgraceful. It seems the Australian media gave the Watsons a pass on this because the 16-year-old kid was a more sympathetic character than the bridge crew of an anonymous Hong Kong-flagged cargo ship.

We talk about the danger of being held to a particular schedule, well what about being held to contractual obligations with sponsors? It seems to me that could be equally dangerous.
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Old 28-10-2009, 08:36   #944
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VOR and other Jess supporters,
Yes, it has gotten negative on here, if it was my friend I'd be pretty bent over it too. But lack of info and misinformation can make the imagination run wild, so pardon us.

Many people here do not think a "youngest" RTW voyage is a good idea. This is mainly because it prompts the next young person to risk their life and so on and so on until a kid gets killed. I hope JW is what you all think she is, she is sailing into the worst water on the face of this earth.

I hope you give this forum a chance, we are not usually this motley. BUT this issue stirs a lot of feelings and we sailors are a passionate lot.
Cheers,
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Old 28-10-2009, 08:50   #945
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The moderators have decided that the "Jessica Fail" and the "Jessica Succeed" threads have served their useful purpose.

Jessica Watson is now a fellow sailor on a challenging and exciting journey. It's time to stop debating whether she should be out there. The fact is that she is out there.

A new thread has been created to discuss the sailing aspects of her journey.

Jessica Watsons RTW Journey

Thanks again for your community spirit and lively and respetful debate.
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