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Old 23-10-2009, 11:14   #796
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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post

... So, it's not out of the question that "Team Jessie" has misstated other important "facts" of the incident.
That there seems to be the problem. A certain amount of people are quite happy to simply gloss over it. Particularly in a so-called "record setting attempt".

What started out (or maybe not) as a fun filled adventure seems to have become a national do-or-die win at all costs "something". Even the current now 3 week non-tracking of the voyage is tainted. After all the additional gizmos and electronic wizardry installed and re-installed, for some now tainted peculiar reason online tracking has yet to be implemented. Quite bizarre indeed. And no, it's not because pirates may monitor her website and tracking and set out to steal her sweets and lollipops.

The leaked Maritime Safety Queensland (MSQ) inspectors report indicated the following:

Did not turn on a device that would have warned her of a potential collision

Which morphed into:

"I suppose one big thing is that really loud alarm we've got now so there's absolutely no chance of me missing the warning alarm of a ship approaching," she said.

Have they now got her telling fibs for the sake of this national do-or-die win at all costs "something".

Very disappointing when it should all be nothing more than a fun filled adventure, a supposedly long time dream of hers.

Before all of this the cry is/was how young will it go, where the reality is turning into how about just 16 and cheat and lie to win.
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Old 24-10-2009, 04:04   #797
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I live in Australia and have been following the Jessica Watson story for several months, long before she left Queensland, had her collision, etc.I am new to this forum. I have absolutely no knowledge or experience of sailing. I have tried to ask questions via her official forum, but have had no response. All they seem to want is "Go Jessica, you're my hero" responses.I hope some of you experienced sailors can find the time to answer my questions, some of which are VERY basic.
I have to say that I have become increasingly disquieted by the spin put on all information re her preparation and progress by her "team" which seems to consist of her parents and her management and PR teams.The official site consists of little but positive spin, with little information.Her blog needs time to develop, but she is going to have to talk about more than smooth water and pretty sunsets. There appears to be a certain level of editting from her mother.The whole thing really just seems so "managed"
Let me say from the start, I wish this 16 year old girl all the best. I hope she is able to complete her planned journey, or at least part of it, safely. Our Acting Prime Minister, Julia Guilard, spoke wisely for once when she wished Jessica well but advised her to keep safe, and if that at any point should mean cutting her trip short, she should do because a young life is more important than anything else.
When I first heard of the planned journey, my main concern was the social isolation of eight plus months at sea, or indeed anywhere. This has to be a major concern. Or is it that communications are now so advanced that she is able, and will be able throughout her whole trip, to maintain regular phone communication with family and friends? I don't know what communication was like in Jesse Martin's day (I have his book on order from the library) but the video of him scared stiff in the Southern Ocean does not bode well.
The other concern I have always had, heightened after her 'accident" is sleep deprivation. Anyone who has lived with teenagers, and also anyone who is au fait with teenage mental health research, would know that teenagers need a lot of sleep and function particularly poorly wiyhout it.
I hace this horrible feeling that Jessica is to some extent being manipulated by her parents for their own gain - whether financial or in terms of reflected glory. Her father is not a wealthy man by any measure, yet he has given up his job many months ago to help prepare for this trip, and a large part of that preparation seems to have been in funding and sponsorship broking. According to local newspapers the family have almost no income other than what her mother earns in a 2 day per week job, and they have other children to support. She has a book and documentary deal in place according to newspaper reports. How easy is it for her to back out if she ever wanted to? I watched a video about her OTL: Jessica Watson Feature and have seen other interviews on tv. She comes across as what some people including her parents describe as focussed and determined, but what I see as simplistic: she is a girl who struggled at school, in her own words has never achieved much, and after her mother read her Jesse Martin's book she decided that "anyone can do this" and she will somehow "blunder through" (I don't have a reference but I saw her use this exact phrase).
Anyway, some of my questions:
Food supplies. - It seems she is taking enough food for only 250 days, which is the eight plus months they hope her trip will take. Everyone else who has done the trip has taken a lot more than that.I tried to ask whether getting food supplies counts as "assistance". I am assuming it does after reading info on Zac Sunderland and Mike Perham's trips. Is this correct? Did Jesse Martin take food to last the whole 11 months his trip eventually lasted? I got the impression from an interview with Jessica and Jesse on "60 Minutes" Chanel 9 Australia that she wants to beat Jesse's record, which was solo non stop unassisted, but how can she hope to do this unless she gets an absolute dream run? Or is it that with only eight months food she will drop down to only going for the solo non stop record and get food drops?
Can someone plese tell me a little about what life will be like when she gets into really cold weather? Do these boats have any sort of heating in the cabin? I know, stupid questions to you, but I know nothing. What about fresh water? I know she has suppies, but they would have to be limited wouldn't they? Does the boat have some sort of water purifying system on board?
I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments so far, and will continue to follow this forum as a supplement to the publicity machine.
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Old 24-10-2009, 05:45   #798
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Welcome to CF, Llyrisk.
You sure have chosen a hot potato to make your first post here but we are a friendly bunch mostly except for anchor debates, mono / multihull issues and of late, youngest record setters.

Have you had a chance to read ALL the Jessica posts? I ask in jest because I don't think many would wade through all of them .

Anyway to your questions - I don't think any of us can give you a definitive answer because, as you have experienced, her "team" is not forthcoming with facts but they do seem to be able to provide spin.

Food, taking on board any food (or anything) after departure is considered "assistance". Does she enough, who knows? One would hope she would have an ample reserve, there is no reason not to excepting lack of funds. For instance, Jon Sanders managed a double circumnavigation (non stop, unassisted etc) in a sistership and he found room onboard for enough food.

Water, these days it is usual to have an electric powered watermaker on board. Does she have one, I don't know. However in the past, these items were not available (or too expensive, unreliable etc). Back then, freshwater was caught off the sails, cabin tops etc when it rained and stored in the boat's water tanks. Many boats still use this principle but watermakers are fast becoming (or have become) the norm.

Heating - probably not fitted given the size of the boat and the intended route, time of year. The coldest section will of course be around the Horn but given she should be there in mid summer, the cold is doable without heating. Might not be fun, but it is doable with suitable clothing. As far as I am aware, no Aussie record setters for the RTW solo trips used heating. After the horn, she will be able to move to the northern edges of the "roaring forties" and get a LITTLE warmer.

What is it like when you are cold and wet and alone in the Southern Ocean? Well that depends on your mental attitude mostly and the degree you can stay below in the worst weather. Without experiencing it yourself, the only way is to read other's accounts. I would suggest Jon Sanders, Kay Cottee, Bernard Moitessier, Robin Knox-Johnston but there are many others.

Alone - well with modern communications, no one needs to be "alone" i.e. out of touch. Even back 1988 Kay Cottee used to enjoy just chatting on the HF radio to other shipping etc. JW will have many more options communication wise.
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Old 24-10-2009, 05:47   #799
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Welcome llyrisk and thank you for a very well considered post.

The short answer is that out there it can be very tough and at some time she will be severely tested with no support available.

Also...communications only work if they are not flooded out.

If she ever looses contact for whatever reason, there will be a lot of soul searching going on.

Normally, solo sailors don't worry much about keeping in touch. They just go out there and quietly do it!
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Old 24-10-2009, 07:01   #800
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Anyway, some of my questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by llyrisk View Post
Food supplies.
really cold weather?
I don't think food supplies would be all that difficult, a few 25 kg bags of rice and Spam, Spam, Spam! Along with multi-vitamins and pasta and canned tomatoes. Gets a bit boring but there are few to hear her complain.

I don't believe she is going around the Horn in mid summer as she first intends to go to the equator half way between Australia and South America and then head to the Horn. So it will be nice and chilly!

The Southern Ocean passage from the Horn to Tasmania (the long way) can be done as far south as one dares or more North. South is by far the shortest. However the whole passage will be in the winter. No matter how far north she goes, she wouldn’t go as far north as say Sydney's latitude. And Sydney is friggin cold in winter at sea!

So from Cape Horn and the Falkland Islands theres just nothing. Just long cold days south past the Cape of Good Hope, then across the vastness of the Indian Ocean to Australia to where... South of Tasmania in what month? The dead of winter.

Cold?!

She can't carry the fuel to run a diesel heater for 8 months and charge her batteries too. In fact how are her solar panels going to work down there in the short winter days?

Distance 21,000 kms

I don't know why these people don't set an August departure date and have her at the Horn early summer and get back to Australia late Autumn.

Of course that would mean delaying the trip to next year and she would be too old.

The only possible reason is that the 'record' is more important than her safety.

Not only did the collision put her time back, she was still running a few months too late in the first place.

So if one wants confirmation of the good times to be in the southern oceans look at Sir Francis Chitchesters passage from the UK to Sydney and back to the UK via the 3 capes. He did Cape of Good Hope/Australia/Horn in summer. Of the weather in summer he said
Quote:
"The waves were tremendous. They varied each time, but all were like great sloping walls towering behind you. The kind I liked least was like a great bank of gray-green earth 50' (15 m) high and very steep. Image yourself at the bottom of one. My cockpit was filled five times and once it took more than 15 minutes to drain. My wind-reading machine stopped recording at 60 knots. My self-steering could not cope with the buffeting....I had a feeling of helplessness."
That was in a 54 foot boat. What the hell is it going to feel like for a 34 foot boat in mid winter?

Finally, if she does do it what happens next? A younger person will try. and the trieers will keep getting younger and younger till sane people put a stop to it.

I don't care about if this current one is on the cusp of being too young or too old, but I know the next will definitly be too young. So lets stop this now before some child is killed.

Mark
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Old 24-10-2009, 07:35   #801
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Jessica on food ➥ Jessicawatson.com.au

"So rightyo, foods another big thing that I get a lot of questions about, here goes;

It was definitely a bit of a mission and Mum has done an amazing job of putting together a tasty menu that will last 8 months, plus extra just in case. Ella's Pink Lady doesn't have refrigeration
sports foods and most freeze dried food, just wasn't going to work for me.

With a lot of help and advice from other sailors and from Gray Slater a dietitian from the University of the Sunshine Coast, I ended up with a pretty good diet that's amazingly close to normal food. My main meals are range of about 10 different meals called Easyfood which is pretty amazing, tasty stuff that only needs to be heated and lasts on the shelf for 18 months. Breakfasts are normal stuff like cereal and porridge and I'm able to bake my own bread (I think I'm going to have to try my first loaf soon because the stuff I took, is getting very stale!) and things like scones in the pressure cooker. Other than that there's tined fruit and veggies,
plenty of treats, hot drinks and etc.
(because it draws too much power) and after a lot of forced sampling, I concluded that fancy

I'll see if I can remember to tell you more about what I'm eating as we go, tonight, I'm planning to have Easyfood lamb chops (they are so nice!)with deb (mashed potato) and asparagus."

Easyfood ➥ Easyfood - Ready Meals to the World - www.easyfoods.com.au
“... Ready Cooked, no refrigeration, no skill required ...”
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Old 24-10-2009, 08:05   #802
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Easyfood
Quote:

Beef Stroganoff 420g



Lamb with Red Currant Rosemary 420g


Chicken Tikka Masala 420g


Vegetarian Tikka Masala 420g


Chilli Bean and Potato 420g



This also includes gluten free meals

.

Easy Foods
Description Weight Wholesale Price Per Carton Total Price

Beef Stroganoff 420g $ 4.20 50 $ 210.00
Lamb Red Currant & Rosemary 420g $ 4.20 50 $ 210.00
Chicken Tikka Masala 420g $ 4.20 50 $ 210.00
Chilli Bean and Potato 420g $ 4.20 50 $ 210.00
Vegetarian Tikka Masala 420g $ 4.20 50 $ 210.00
* Prices exclude delivery
** Prices quoted are initially for 3 month period from the 16/01/09
*** Minimum order of 50 units / carton

****For an additional fee the packages can be placed in a cardboard sleave with labelling


Infor from http://www.podd.com.au/files/file/Ea...blication2.pdf




So those prices: $4.20 each. Carton qty 50. Price per carton $210

$4.20AUD = $3.90 USD

420 grams is not a huge amount, about the quantity of a standard can.

Beef Strog = 1827kJ How does that rate for a main meal?

I have often wondered about preprepared meals for passages but at $8.40 per couple per meal its not inexpensive. At sea we save a bit for when we hit land... save for fine resturants like McDonlads...


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Old 24-10-2009, 08:23   #803
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For all concerned about teenagers welfare and longevity in general, I commend you to peruse You Tube there must be tens of thousands of videos of teenagers vying for Darwin Awards. The Jack Ass series are but one example, whether these are staged or not is irrelevant, they will encourage others to emulate their stunts.

By way of example :

We can't go around banning everything just because there is an element of risk. Be careful what you wish for. There will always be someone whose idea of risk is definitely more conservative than yours. That same argument can be used to ban cruising for all of us because its "dangerous"; remembering that there is a majority in society who believe that going to sea in a small boat is dangerous, risky and just plain crazy. Today they ban teenage girls, tomorrow all single handers, and the day after crews of less than 4, and so on.
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Old 24-10-2009, 14:31   #804
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..............

Normally, solo sailors don't worry much about keeping in touch. They just go out there and quietly do it!
Old school ones - yes
But now it seems that if it isn't on 10 min you tube clip, it wasn't really done

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I don't believe she is going around the Horn in mid summer as she first intends to go to the equator half way between Australia and South America and then head to the Horn. So it will be nice and chilly!

The Southern Ocean passage from the Horn to Tasmania (the long way) can be done as far south as one dares or more North. South is by far the shortest. However the whole passage will be in the winter. No matter how far north she goes, she wouldn’t go as far north as say Sydney's latitude. And Sydney is friggin cold in winter at sea!

So from Cape Horn and the Falkland Islands theres just nothing. Just long cold days south past the Cape of Good Hope, then across the vastness of the Indian Ocean to Australia to where... South of Tasmania in what month? The dead of winter.

Cold?!
Good point Mark, I had forgotten about the equator loop before South America. This does put a much more serious aspect to her timing / seasonal issues. While I haven't worked the distances, winds, currents etc, I would have thought off the top of my head you are right in saying that she can't expect to make the Horn in mid summer.
To my mind, the timing of rounding the Horn is crucial to the mission as this dictates the expected weather for both the higher lats of the Horn and just as importantly as Mark points out, the long long passage from there to the bottom of Tassie. Not something to undertaken (IMO) as winter sets in.

So I wait until it becomes clear as to when she expects to approach Cape Horn.
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Old 24-10-2009, 15:48   #805
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She has 4 months till the end of summer. And Roger Badham doing the weather routing. He has a fair idea of what he's doing. I'm sure if he feels she can't make Cape Horn "in season" he'll advise doing the equator loop in the Atlantic.
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Old 24-10-2009, 16:23   #806
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She has 4 months till the end of summer. And Roger Badham doing the weather routing. He has a fair idea of what he's doing. I'm sure if he feels she can't make Cape Horn "in season" he'll advise doing the equator loop in the Atlantic.
Yes but

Getting round Cape Horn BEFORE the end of summer is not the problem, it is getting around in time for the passage to Tassie.

Doing the equator loop in the Atlantic is more problematic as it will probably make for a longer voyage. Going from Cape Horn to the equator is longer than from Sydney to the equator. Regardless of a Pacific or Atlantic loop, she still has to round South Africa and then Southern Ocean to Tassie.

Going on memory, its 9000 nm from Cape Horn to Fremantle and say 2,000 nm from Fremantle to Hobart so that is around 10,000 + nm from the Horn to Hobart. Thats about 3 months at her expected 100 nmpd.

Hopefully JW's team knows a much more than me but I can't help wondering if that an Indian Ocean equator loop would be better given her "late" departure. This would be a shorter loop than the Atlantic and allow her to use the most of the summer for the higher lats. but I am guessing the Pacific loop was designed to help her bed in to the solo sailing and her boat with easier sailing conditions before hitting the Southern Ocean proper.

Any which way, it will be tough going from Cape Leeuwin to Hobart.
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Old 24-10-2009, 16:52   #807
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"Equator Loops"

Opps... I forgot to factor in cyclones - which means the Pacific loop needs to be completed ASAP, an Atlantic loop is not cyclone critical (IIRC) and an Indian loop needs to be after late autumn.
FWIW...
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Old 24-10-2009, 18:10   #808
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Thanks to everyone who replied to my questions. I am still hung up on the amount of food she is taking. This article
Spam for Jess | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | The Sunshine Coast Daily
is from August, when she is talking about a seven or eight month trip. I know it is not a full list, but with 250 ready meals with not very high energy value, will she have enough food if the journey takes 12 or 13 months? I really don't think money is a problem because of the heavy sonsorship support, especially now (post collision) that she is so high profile.
Being cold and wet for weeks at a time sounds horrible. How on earth do you get clothes dry in those conditions, or don't you?
I could be wrong, but she doesn't strike me as having the strength of mind to endure this, ( and she does not have prior experience of extreme conditions) let alone combined with terrifying swells or mechanical problems, without Mum on the phone to convince her she can do it and not to give up.
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Old 24-10-2009, 18:56   #809
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FWIW, the season to round the Horn is the middle of the southern Winter. IIRC, the chances of storms and strong winds are much greater during the Southern Summer. Even if she had an easy Cape Horn passage, it will be unpleasantly cold when she get's there. From her proposed track, it looks she is going to stay relatively far north till she makes her run to the Cape. Still, she will be sailing at the latitude of Oregon for most of her trip so it won't be a sun filled cruise.
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Old 24-10-2009, 19:21   #810
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Being cold and wet for weeks at a time sounds horrible. How on earth do you get clothes dry in those conditions, or don't you?
Nothing is dry and living in a wetsuit for weeks on end.... can really test a person, when the rashes and sores begin
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