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Old 22-10-2009, 19:37   #781
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A really BIG ask

After 780 posts just on this thread alone, I am wondering if it would be possible to separate the actions of JW and those of her "team". I am not sure who the team actually are but probably (must?) include her parents, her sponsors and their PR people.

I started out not caring too much either way about JW and her mission except I felt she was being discriminated against on grounds on age, color of boat, possibly gender, possible lack of experience etc. I went in to bat for her Aussie right "to have a fair go".

With out rehashing these points, I am starting to like this kid (OK, PC police), this person. She is showing some toughness and presence of mind and she is out on the water attempting her mission. No doubt she loves her Mum and Dad, sailing and her sponsors (well at least the sponsors boat and money) but do they (the team) love her? Have they got her best interests at heart, are they straight shooters, do they stick to the truth regardless of ramifications, are they giving her frank and fearless advice?

And is this worth discussing?????? (and its not a rhetorical question )
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Old 22-10-2009, 20:27   #782
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I am wondering if it would be possible to separate the actions of JW and those of her "team". I am not sure who the team actually are but probably (must?) include her parents, her sponsors and their PR people.
You have hit that nail on the head. She is meant to be doing this attempt UNASSISTED. So would you prefer that she did it unassisted? Or that we forget all the hand holding she is getting? And has been given?
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Old 22-10-2009, 20:52   #783
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Yes, she should be sailing a boat she built herself, using materials she grew organically by herself, in soil fertilised using her own waste products, which come from food she grew herself...
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Old 23-10-2009, 03:09   #784
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I’m cross-posting (from ’Yachting SUCCEED - Jessica Watson’) in the interest of maintaining peace in that playground,

What reason, other than to break a record (that doesn’t even “officially” exist), can there be for her to go now?

Her unshakable dream isn’t to sail round the world (solo, not-stop, unassisted) - it’s to become the youngest to do so.

To me, that would be a frivolous accomplishment. A difficult exploit, to be sure; but, nonetheless a fruitless and trivial feat, bereft of any real meaning or valuable benefit, other than notoriety. That constitutes a “stunt”.
Thank you Gord for posting your definition of a "stunt"

When I read the the above paragraph, I could not help but think of some other stunts that have occured in recent history.

Vietnam War
Sending people to the moon
Desert Storm
Weapons of mass destruction
War in Iraq
War in Afganistan.

All sponsered by the loss of innocent young lives of soldiers, civillians and the American Tax payer.

So I guess you guys are right, Jessica does have a lot to learn.

Glenn
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Old 23-10-2009, 03:18   #785
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Glenn

Ummmm. Please don't.

Lets keep the forum nice.
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Old 23-10-2009, 03:31   #786
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Ummmm. Please don't.

Lets keep the forum nice.
Hi Mark,

Now that is a 2 way street.

Just wish that others would be nice 2, sick to death of Jessica bashings.

Now maybe if she joined the Forum, all the nasty stuff about her could be retracted. Then we could all live in peace and harmony.

Cheers,
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Old 23-10-2009, 04:04   #787
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Not much to say, just wanted to be No 787, cause it's a nice number. The young lady is doing it. Show your hand if you have not had assistance in some form or another. No one with her now, how would you handle it, or could you?
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Old 23-10-2009, 04:49   #788
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Now this is just pushing common sense boundaries...

Quote:
You have hit that nail on the head. She is meant to be doing this attempt UNASSISTED.
If you havnt followed sporting challanges under this banner, then I think you should do a little reading.

To some how suggest that anybody involved in these pursuits does it completely alone from the get go is... .......well i think you need to do a bit more reading Mark.

The idea is to be self sufficent once you cross the start line...(I place this statement for the bleedin bloody obvious)...

I too just dont get the nastiness of posting Jessicas attempt "as a stunt"...unless you wish to label the Americas cup.as such....Tiger woods is
a sponsorship "user".....

and the CF site....uses "sponsorship" to pay its owners....

it even use volunteers in is management...sigh..

ps your mission statement states that it notifies posters on deleating posts....aint happened yet...honesty is such a lonely word
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Old 23-10-2009, 05:26   #789
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Not much to say, just wanted to be No 787, cause it's a nice number. The young lady is doing it. Show your hand if you have not had assistance in some form or another. No one with her now, how would you handle it, or could you?
In defence of Mark J,(not that we agree on this one) he has sailed across the pacific and up to Asia, so I kinda think he knows what he's doing when its comes to sailing.
I'm sure your spot on about others posting on this topic.
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Old 23-10-2009, 05:41   #790
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As for her speed, 7kts is definitely cracking on for her being below deck and asleep -- theoretical hull speed for her S&S34 is only 6.59 kts. But, there would have been no fudging the speed on the report because AIS would have it cold. At that time of night, Silver Yang would probably not be able to say whether she was under power or sail unless she was showing a steaming light, which she may not have been.

Ok, I'm just going to come out and say it then: my strong suspicion is she was under power, talked over the situation with Dad immediately after the collision (all the reports say that was her first call) and then the "team" decided her claim to right of way was stronger -- an the embarrassment factor lower -- if she said she was under sail.

Remember, among other things, she was cited for not keeping a proper log. That alone invites suspicion.

I'm in the FAIL thread, so claim immunity.
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Old 23-10-2009, 08:30   #791
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- - In the COLREGS, after all the definitions, the first rule (#5) is to maintain a "proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as all available means . . . " It has been a long and difficult discussion in the sailing world about single-handers and maintaining a "proper lookout". One camp says single-handers by virtue of being alone cannot comply with the rule while the other camp says with the aid of other "available means" they can. So IMHO, Jessica's failure was to not either maintain a "sight and hearing" lookout nor a proper effective other "available means" lookout. All the other rules violations are subordinate to the first rule - proper lookout. Just like in a criminal trial the prosecution charges murder, grand theft, whatever and then just in case a conviction is not possible on the "big" one they lay on many other "sub-charges" of this or that. But Jessica's big mistake was failing to keep a proper lookout and sad to say, I do not think that there is any long time sailor/cruiser who hasn't at one time or another been guilty of the same thing.
- - Just luck and the shear size of the oceans makes the probability of an encounter with another vessel remote. Of course, entering sea lanes or other congested sea ways really ups the ante on meeting other ships. I would hazard that once she gets on the "down-stroke" along the western side of South America and the rest of her route she could (ignoring requirements for operating the vessel) sleep the whole way and never have an encounter with another vessel.
- - I have driven all over the north island of New Zealand 20 years ago and encoutering another automobile (outside of Auckland) was a rare event. Of course, when driving the windy narrow mountain roads and approaching a switch-back blind corner you could almost guarantee that a lorry was coming around in the opposite direction. Jessica should have been aware that while she was within 20 +/- nm of the Aussie coastline she would have significant traffic. I looked at that AIS site somebody posted and ranged it up and down the east coast of Australia and there was - as should be expected - quite a few targets everywhere.
- - So that adds up to "failure of judgement" or failure of her educators. But as Rule 2 states: Responsibility falls to the "master" of the vessel. Same goes for the freighter.
** Anybody know where she is now?
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Old 23-10-2009, 09:31   #792
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Oh for f..k sake, are you guys ever going to give up or are you going to go on and on about it until you have her on the stake and the fire ready?

Regardless of the COLREGS and whether she is 100%, 50% or 0% to blame for the collision, she clearly screwed up. Guess what, she is not the first sailor to screw up like this and she wont be the last. On this site over the past few months I have read about posters here sailing solo and being woken up at the last second from the ships horn to avoid a colision. Someone else posted a comment about being involved in a colision when somone was on watch and then there is the case of the family except the mother getting killed in a colision. Where is the witch hunt for them?

What about the guy with the yacht that fell apart because it was so badly prepared for any sort of journey and had not even had a shake down sail which might have found the problems in safer conditions? Where was his witch hunt?

There is a good saying “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”

I am impressed by the way that instead of giving up too scared to live her dream, she got straight back out there. Can everyone here say with 100% confidence that they would do the same?
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Old 23-10-2009, 10:06   #793
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What about the guy with the yacht that fell apart because it was so badly prepared for any sort of journey and had not even had a shake down sail which might have found the problems in safer conditions?
I'd like to read about that guy...got a link?
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Old 23-10-2009, 10:06   #794
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Willing to admit we're so this is my last post on the subject. Immediately after the incident, Jessica's father insisted that she repeatedly tried to hail Silver Yang and accused the ship's crew of shutting off its AIS to "hide":

Jessica Watson a victim of ocean 'hit and run' | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | The Sunshine Coast Daily#):

Mr Watson said Jess made several attempts to avoid the Sliver Yang, including repeated radio requests, but ultimately braced herself in her bunk for impact. False: maritime authorities said she was asleep at time of collision and never even saw the vessel until it was too late.

He said the silver Yang disappeared off AIS tracking moments after the collision.

“We were following them on the internet and then it just disappeared like they had switched it off,” Mr Watson said. No mention of this whatsoever in the maritime report.

... So, it's not out of the question that "Team Jessie" has misstated other important "facts" of the incident.
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Old 23-10-2009, 10:26   #795
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I'd like to read about that guy...got a link?
Rescue of s/v Gringo
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