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Old 21-10-2009, 07:31   #736
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What matters is that a collision occurred that almost certainly would have been avoided had the skipper been alert and on watch. Everything else is just a legal matter.

I hope Jessica's parents had the forethought to discuss a "graceful exit strategy" for her. Particularly if she decides the Southern Ocean is too much. "Honey, you're going to be famous for just trying to do this. If you can't make it, just let us know and we'll call the whole thing off. You'll be our hero no matter what." and all that.

The kid is under enormous pressure from all sides -- she needs a safety valve. Given what her father said in the press, however, I wonder if they had that conversation.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:35   #737
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I've got one rule. If you are bigger than me I get the hell out of the way. You learn that real quick here with the ships, tows and shrimpers. If you feel since you are under sail and are the stand on vessel they will move. Think again because they just ran over you.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:38   #738
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Everything else is just a legal matter.

.
Quaint Australian habit of obeying the law, we apologise.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:48   #739
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Quaint Australian habit of obeying the law, we apologise.
No, the apology is mine. I was apparently mistaken when I thought the law also required her to stand watch.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:51   #740
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Anyway - can you explain to me why we aren't all having a tanty about abby sunderland, same age and same plan (i.e. solo non stop) and way more polished sponsorship approach. Are we going to have 50 pages of abby is a dill? Or is there a difference that I dont see.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:54   #741
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- - No, Based on it being the middle of the night and the reports from the Silver Yang that they saw a "green" light from Pink Lady, it is reasonable to assume that Pink Lady was not identifiable as a sailing vessel. In daylight conditions, absolutely the identification would/should have been made, and the rules would be different as you stated. Also a large freighter is constrained by maneuvering ability. It takes many miles for it to slow and the turn radius is measure in miles not feet as with a smaller vessel. This is an everynight problem in the Gulf Stream crossing from Florida to the Bahamas - a half dozen or more large cruise ships steam south on the way to the Caribbean all in a row like elephants, nose to tail. Motor and sailboats heading to the Bahamas have to thread there way through the ships or simply pull back and wait an hour or so for the stream to pass by.
- - There was fault on both parties for failing to properly identify each other and both parties for not taking avoidance action soon enough. Note that the report stated the Pink Lady collided with the Silver Yang, not the other way around.
- - My recitation ignores all the other aspects such as AIS, radar, and goes back to old fashioned "visual" rules only given the time of day. Anytime I see a "red" nav light off my bow at night, that does not move I change course. In actual cases taken to court - "failure to maintain watch" has always been the number one cited fault. All the other minor aspects such as lights are moot if there is nobody on watch.
- - It will be interesting to see if there is any alteration in the final determination and what if anything can be officially done. My guess is everybody wants the whole thing to just "go away" and be forgotten as there wasn't any physical injuries. "Sh&t happens". I am more concerned if she has learned anything from her "incident". If yes, then her chances of successfully completing her quest increases dramatically.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:59   #742
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-it is reasonable to assume that Pink Lady was not identifiable as a sailing vessel.
Why - was it showing lights to signify steaming ??> I really dont understand this point.

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Also a large freighter is constrained by maneuvering ability.
I think you will find that the Colregs talk about constrained by her draught, which is not the case in the water she was in.

Yeah yeah - hard to turn etc, doesnt mean they instantly have precedence or can avoid taking the action.

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Note that the report stated the Pink Lady collided with the Silver Yang, not the other way around.
The relevant legislation (transport operations marine safety act qld) does not differentiate who collides with whom - merely that a collission occurs.

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- - It will be interesting to see if there is any alteration in the final determination and what if anything can be officially done.
Not if the constitution of Australia and the criminal code of Qld remain in force.
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Old 21-10-2009, 08:16   #743
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Wow, it is getting crowded with "teens" out there - should be a good idea for a editorial cartoon, all those teens playing "bumper boats" to be "first". This is probably not good news to the JW camp as "yesterday's hero" is forgotten quickly when a new one takes the prize. Mike, Who? Zac, who? Jessica, who? And your worth in the money circuit diminishes rapidly when a "new hero" takes the stage. That has to add pressure on Jessica if she is aware of Abby Sunderland.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outp...the-world.html

""This is the open 50 that I have been training on. It is pretty much the same as the boat I will be using, just ten feet bigger. "
http://soloround.blogspot.com/
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Old 21-10-2009, 08:18   #744
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Like virtually all teens, Abby Sunderland has a dream - just a wish, really. At this stage, it's doubtful that anything will come of it. However, should she have more success in putting her effort together than I suspect she will, that will kick things up a notch or two.

If it reaches that stage, and if Abby is as thorough as her big brother, and enjoys the same support her parents provided him, then I would take her quest seriously. If she's even half the sailor Zac has proven himself to be, she may do very well.

But trying to deflect the negative attention that Ms. Watson is receiving onto Ms. Sunderland is disingenuous, and does nothing to relieve Ms. Watson of the onus she placed on herself by colliding with a bulk carrier her first night at sea.

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Old 21-10-2009, 18:21   #745
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But trying to deflect the negative attention that Ms. Watson is receiving onto Ms. Sunderland is disingenuous, and does nothing to relieve Ms. Watson of the onus she placed on herself by colliding with a bulk carrier her first night at sea.

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No its not. Look if the criticism of Jessica was based on that incident - then fair enough she deserves what she gets - but in the 50 pages or so of comment the overwhelming majority of the commentary is - she is too young - 16 is to young,- her parents should stop her - I am a mother therefore I wouldnt send my child to sea etc etc etc. If any of that is valid - then it applies to all persons. Its not valid in Jessicas case and it isnt valid in Abby's case. I suppose I am looking for balance in this whole debate.
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Old 21-10-2009, 18:33   #746
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Impossible!

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I suppose I am looking for balance in this whole debate.
Good luck
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Old 21-10-2009, 18:39   #747
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When has a mob ever been balanced? I am sure if Abby gets ready she will get grilled. It is the nature of the beast. Come to think about it, if my teenager decided on this journey, I would not tell anyone about it until they have passed the southern ocean. Think of all the worry and hairpulling you would save.
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Old 21-10-2009, 20:03   #748
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No its not. Look if the criticism of Jessica was based on that incident - then fair enough she deserves what she gets - but in the 50 pages or so of comment the overwhelming majority of the commentary is - she is too young - 16 is to young,- her parents should stop her - I am a mother therefore I wouldnt send my child to sea etc etc etc. If any of that is valid - then it applies to all persons. Its not valid in Jessicas case and it isnt valid in Abby's case. I suppose I am looking for balance in this whole debate.
Don't worry - when Abby prangs on her first night out, she'll get her 50 pages too
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Old 21-10-2009, 20:14   #749
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Factor, you seem to be under the impression that those who disapprove of JW solo RTW would approve of AS. Why? I see no evidence of it, nor would I expect it. Do you think JW is being singled out for a reason? Not grilling, really! just curious.

Now that she is out there, Godspeed Jessica, and Pink Lady...please take good care of your captain.

Cheers,
Erika
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Old 21-10-2009, 21:16   #750
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. Do you think JW is being singled out for a reason? .

Now that she is out there, Godspeed Jessica, and Pink Lady...please take good care of your captain.

Cheers,
Erika
I agree with Erika that its ALL kiddies that I think should be banned from these things. Find an appropriate age, say 18, as was most recommended in our age poll. But 16, 15 and 13 are thought the same in my mind, and heaven forbid it go down to 10 year olds.

The bit I don't agree with Erika and others wishing 'godspeed' etc (I'm not religious so I don't really know what it means) but I would hope that she does have a calamity (or relevation) that can force her home safely and without harm as soon as possable.

Its not a particular person that I am against its the ever decreasing age required to do it. I just don't think a person in their formative years needs a southern ocean winter crossing by themselves where there is utterly no chance of turning around and calling it off when the going gets too tough.

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PS I might be negative here on this subject, but I have plenty of positive contributions to other threads.... I am not just a nay-sayer in all!
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