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Old 16-10-2009, 00:14   #661
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We should fill a boat with the worlds idiots and tell them to circumnavigate. I can see that solving a lot of problems.

I'd probably captain though.
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Old 16-10-2009, 02:52   #662
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Now we get into a much more philosophical debate Wotname, and that is should a person be prevented from hurting themselves, and when does a society loose the liability of controlling a young individual's actions. Australia seems to believe it is 16, mothers that are on this forum seem to think that age is much older.
I am a watcher, and conclude that my getting upset will not change the events unfolding over there...
I wish her luck, and at the same time wish she wouldn't go...
I am not sure we have gone as far "should a person be prevented from hurting themselves" and I don't see this thread as a suitable forum for that question. JW isn't intentionally going to sail RTW etc to harm herself although she undertaking a risky venture.

So who decides the risk? If the most likely victim is only the risk taker, then IMO, they (and only they) have the right to make the call. Whether or not they are qualified (experienced enough) to understand (assess) the risks is immaterial. If others are potentially (and significantly) put at risk by the actions of an individual, then society tends to limit such freedoms by way of laws etc.

My guess is that JW really doesn't fully understand the risks (and other's are pushing their own barrows so are not advising her i.a.w. her best interests) but this is the path she has chosen. If she makes it - great, I will be on hand to give her a hero's welcome. If she fails and lives to tell the tale, I will listen and applaud. If she dies in the attempt, I will be sad (briefly) for a life lost but will sleep OK knowing she had the right to make her own decisions.

Perhaps the one thing I miss most from my youth is that feeling of immortality that travels along side the young. And oh, that God sometimes looks after fools and dunks.
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Old 16-10-2009, 05:16   #663
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Freedom includes the ability to do unwise / dumb stuff..........and applies to others as well as myself.

But just because I may have the Freedom to do something (dumb or not ) doesn't mean I have any right to avoid others commenting or criticising..........and if anyone also chooses to sell themself through the media they are intentionally encouraging comments, opnions, criticism and even controversy from a far wider (and less polite) audience.

My gut feeling is that the Jessica marketing strategy has learnt from the Bumfuzzle approach to RTW sailing ..............so in many respects the naysayers are actually helping Jessica far more than her supporters. Life is full of ironies
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Old 16-10-2009, 06:31   #664
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Freedom includes the ability to do unwise / dumb stuff..........and applies to others as well as myself.

But just because I may have the Freedom to do something (dumb or not ) doesn't mean I have any right to avoid others commenting or criticising..........and if anyone also chooses to sell themself through the media they are intentionally encouraging comments, opnions, criticism and even controversy from a far wider (and less polite) audience.

My gut feeling is that the Jessica marketing strategy has learnt from the Bumfuzzle approach to RTW sailing ..............so in many respects the naysayers are actually helping Jessica far more than her supporters. Life is full of ironies
Strange, you put words to a gut feeling I also had.
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Old 16-10-2009, 07:17   #665
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So guys - at 16 she is too young - so what are the rules, is 17 okay - is 18 is 19. is there a height limit, what about gender - religion - is their a spiritual issue,

What are your rules?
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Old 16-10-2009, 09:05   #666
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How about the simple realization that you are not immortal? That you will be in a place where no matter how much you call, nobody will be there to help you. And that the southern ocean with 40 ft breakers does not care if you are young, beautiful and have sponsors that painted your boat pink....
The bottom line is that we (on this forum) will not be the opposition this girl has to face. We are nothing compared to what awaits her.
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Old 16-10-2009, 10:02   #667
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Newt, >>> How about the simple realization that you are not immortal?<<< That does not happen until you are somewhere near middle age - and - have sufficiently scared yourself to death a few times. Pre-teens have no concept of mortality; - Teens know everything including that they are immortal: - Post-teens are starting to get an inkling of mortality, but not enough to change their perceptions.
- - I cannot believe we managed to get two whole posts with lucid and intelligent thoughts posted (#663 & #664) - the "trolls must have been asleep . . .
- - D O J's >>so in many respects the naysayers are actually helping Jessica far more than her supporters.<< is something known by most all parents of teenagers - if you want them to do something, tell them: "you cannot do that, it is dangerous, I won't let you. . ." and guess what they will rush out to immediately do?
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Old 16-10-2009, 10:05   #668
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Unless you’re going for a speed or new "youngest" record, does anyone else do this? I would think that regardless of speed or age a non-stop solo circumnavigation is an extraordinary achievement. Maybe there are many 40 or 50 somethings quietly doing this without fanfare, but you never hear about them. Frankly, I imagine a solo non-stop circumnavigation to be a kind of sleep deprivation nightmare until you reach the point where you just don’t care anymore.
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Old 16-10-2009, 17:13   #669
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So guys - at 16 she is too young - so what are the rules, is 17 okay - is 18 is 19. is there a height limit, what about gender - religion - is their a spiritual issue,

What are your rules?
What are your rules? If 16 is OK, then how about 13? Is a six-year-old old enough for you? Where would you draw the line? Or would you draw the line at all?
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Old 16-10-2009, 17:50   #670
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Waxing on about how "cute" the boat looks is different than admiring a vessel for what she is capable of doing.
That is to say do pink boats sink easier than white boats? Seems a foolish argument in that light so maybe the issue is really not important. Too much of this thread is about age / sex. The debate about both is a hoax. Should there be a rule or not is an even a bigger hoax. Should there be a test or not is actually a joke.

Given two legs, people will go where they will. and the debate about it is a trial by ordeal. We won't solve this problem so the debate is all but pointless.

Some folks think the boat is cute. Some folks are insulted. I'm not moved by either argument.
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Old 16-10-2009, 18:22   #671
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Very good points Paul, but I do believe age is a factor when discussing “risk management”

I think all of us will agree that at 15 most of us felt, “invulnerable”, “invincible” and somewhat “special”.

(Today only ‘special” remains …lol…)

My point is that at 15 or so….risk management is not an established mindset and I think that is a valid talking point without insulting Jessica.

The other side of feeling invincible is that when reality strikes hard, people often crash inward to re-evaluate their self worth and I am sure Jessica will go thru that at some point in her journey.

I wish her well
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Old 16-10-2009, 20:34   #672
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Hard to believe this discussion has been going for over a month.
On Sept 9th, the ATSB issued a media release stating that a preliminary report would be released in "about 30 days." It's 37 days and counting, yet still no report as far as I can see. Is the ATSB usually this slow, or could there be political pressure - or are they still trying to find Maloolaba?
MEDIA RELEASE : 09 September 2009 - Collision between a Hong Kong registered bulk carrier, Silver Yang and an Australian yacht, Pink Lady
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Old 17-10-2009, 04:24   #673
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What are your rules? If 16 is OK, then how about 13? Is a six-year-old old enough for you? Where would you draw the line? Or would you draw the line at all?
Mate - Im not the one making rules, I dont really care - its none of my business. I have no desire to make rules for other people.
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Old 17-10-2009, 06:15   #674
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Mate - Im not the one making rules, I dont really care - its none of my business. I have no desire to make rules for other people.
Then why does it matter to you what other people would have as their rules?
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Old 17-10-2009, 06:27   #675
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Cause next thing you know - you will make a rule that affects my life .

Really I just want to know where the cut off is - all the naysayers say - she is too young - too immature , her boat is too pink, her parents are too this, her sponser is too that.

Its a simple question - What are the rules that people propose.
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