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Old 30-09-2009, 15:57   #436
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It must be nice on your planet, Jace. On mine teenagers are kids. Currently we prosecute people who use 16 year olds in war as war criminals...Listen, no 16 year old should be single handing the Southern Ocean in winter. They are simply not capable of basing their decisions on experience. Most sane adults know better...she simply does not know what she does not know.
I guess on your planet people have a very tiny understanding of what a 16 year old can do. Interesting that you charge people as war criminals for using 16 year olds at gun fodder but your own government sez its ok at 17.

I put it to you that we are doing children a disservice by artifically protecting them for the length of time we do. We are not doing them any favours and if a "Kid" decides to do something like this, who are we to stick our noses into their business. That kid has obviously shown his or her supporters that he/she can do what is proposed.

I suggest that we all look after our own children, retard their growth if you feel it is required. As a parent that seems to be your right. Do it to your own children, but don't try to inflict your version of whats right on others.


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Old 30-09-2009, 17:05   #437
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Yep that bloody Ellen macarthur and that froggie Francis Joyon - idiots the both of them and as for that absolute fool Robin Knox-Johnson well what can I say - it was obviously that other idiot Joshua Slocum that started all this madness.
Absolutely. I don't deny that they are (or were) all amazing sailors, but the whole concept of racing around the world alone - what's the point??? If it's to go as fast as possible, that would be done faster and safer with a full crew; if it's a test of a single person's ability to endure then the test should be how long they can stay at sea, not how fast they can get back to shore. Dame Ellen, the froggie et al have "virtual" crews anyway with all the help they get from their shore teams, in constant contact via satellite. Without a clear purpose - these can only be considered stunts. IIRC Joyon smashed IDEC on the rocks right after finishing one of his stunts - a clear example of how foolish single-handing is. Slocum's book is one of my favourite reads - but one should really consider the context of his voyage. He went before there were Lookout rules, EPIRBs, SARSAT, Coast Guards etc. When he went to sea, the sea-faring life was extremely hazardous. He made it to a ripe old age despite a lifetime at sea and numerous shipwrecks - it is entirely likely that he expected to die at sea; it's probably how he wanted to go. There was also very little shipping traffic when he embarked on his voyage, yet on his last voyage it is presumed that he was run down by a steamer.
So they're all great sailors, but it's been done. The only thing left is to seek ever-more-ridiculous records. Just stunts.
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Old 30-09-2009, 21:06   #438
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"she simply does not know what she does not know." From Christian Van H

Can you name me someone who does know what they don't know?

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Old 30-09-2009, 21:12   #439
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Yet all the pontificating quoting this law then that law, arguing about points of law its all irellevent.
Rules of the Road is for mutual safety, not some obscure law trying to restrict the movement of the free..

If you or the other solo sailors need to prove yourself or experience some ultimate freedom, go hike the desert..Or seek proffesional help for your ego problem, just don't endager me or my fellow Mariners by sailing while sleeping.

(Stop the boat, heave to, put up lights and signals for Vessel Not Under Command, launch flares every few minuttes to warn other Mariners that you are not in Command. Oops, can't comply with the rules 'cause you have to sleep? , stay home or take on a qualified crew..Why is this hard to understand? Walk the desert or stay home)
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Old 30-09-2009, 21:43   #440
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"she simply does not know what she does not know." From Christian Van H

Can you name me someone who does know what they don't know?

www.joekeck.com
- - Actually the better way to put that is probably "She does not know -That- she does not know" about what she is getting into and what is necessary to succeed in this endeavor. Maybe she does. I believe the other young circumnavigators all did at least one cross ocean or very long distance cruise (with or without assistance) prior to heading out on their quest.
- - UK's Mike Perham set out at age 16 for the same record - non-stop alone around the world, but had a mechanical failure that he decided made continuing unsafe so he stopped in Spain for repairs. Then he elected to continue under a new category - around the world assisted. He was still alone on the boat but could stop in different ports for rest and repairs.
- - Normally the human on board can succeed, but the boat breaks or cannot be fixed at sea, then they have to decide whether to continue "unsafely" or put in for repairs. We will see how Jessica and her Pink Lady hold up. She should have plenty of sea miles and time while making the loop up and around the equator before heading into the roaring 40's to find the weak spots in herself and the boat.
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Old 01-10-2009, 00:05   #441
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Originally Posted by Jace View Post
"she simply does not know what she does not know." From Christian Van H

Can you name me someone who does know what they don't know?

www.joekeck.com

If he has to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand....I guess that goes for both sides on this issue.

As far as my well and probably overly stated opinion - the minute she leaves for the circumnavigation I will be her biggest supporter, I want her to get through this alive and well.

God bless,
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:56   #442
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That kid has obviously shown his or her supporters that he/she can do what is proposed.
No she has NOT! The official government report says she didnt even have the course plotted either on paper or on a plotter!!!!

How insane is the fruitcake who goes to sea wthout even the COURSE plotted!?

Untill this 'sailor' can actually sail she should be kept at home!

Remember sailing means much more than hoisting a sail or pulling in a sheet. She has to be able to steer the friggin thing! And no one can steer a boat without knowing where they are going.

End of story.

She can't sail! Missed one ship. Hit another ship. No course. No recording of Lat & Lon means NO LOG KEPT!!!!!!!!!

Even if the sailor is 50 they shouldnt be on the ocean if thats the level of knowledge or training.


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Old 01-10-2009, 02:54   #443
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In simple terms life is an on going school room of experiences, some good and some bad, we always seem to dwell on the bad things and miss the good an exciting moments and take pleasure in them. Sort of makes for a pretty sad bunch. Jessica has already done alot of pretty impressive things, in the sailing she has under her belt, not to mention all the training and coarses she has taken. But then she has made one mistake so we all judge her out of here, what ever happened to that second chance. For me she is more than ready and done all she can to attempt her voyage and therefore gets my support. Wondering how many here have not failed at something and still did not give up and tried again to get it right, if you haven't suggest you live in a boring life.
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:38   #444
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- - Actually the better way to put that is probably "She does not know -That- she does not know" ...
EXACTLY ! This phenomenon is often described as the
Dunning-Kruger effect*

Incompetent people do not know that they are incompetent

* Taken together, four factors contribute to an inverse correlation between confidence and competence.

1. Incompetent individuals, compared with their more competent peers, dramatically overestimate their ability and performance.
2. Incompetent individuals are less able than their more competent peers to recognize competence when they see it.
3. Incompetent individuals are less able than their more competent peers to gain insight into their true level of performance.
4. Incompetent individuals can gain insight about their shortcomings, but this comes (paradoxically) by gaining competence.

As Bertrand Russell put it: “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Or, as Thomas Jefferson put it: “He who knows best, knows how little he knows.”

Drs. David Dunning & Justin Kruger wrote a couple of papers explaining their research, and it’s results.

"Why People Fail to Recognize Their Own Incompetence"
http://eres.olin.wesleyan.edu/eres/d...89/dunnwhy.pdf


“Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments”
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:24   #445
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she has made one mistake .
OK number 2 mistake:

From a friend

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Jessica Watson has set off early this morning after getting her boat repaired and forgot to log her details with search and rescue before crossing the bar at Southport on her way to Sydney for her official start to her round the world solo and non-stop!
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:12   #446
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Can you name me someone who does know what they don't know?
Sure Jace! I know for a fact that I do not know how to perform open heart surgery, but if you ask nicely I might give it a try...

How many posts does it take to forget that this girl sailed into the side of a freighter on her first night out alone? I am 47, have been sailing for 35 years, and have crossed the New York shipping lanes dozens of times. I know for a fact that I'm not ready to singlehand the southern ocean in winter. Thats two examples...do you want more?
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:32   #447
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I guess on your planet people have a very tiny understanding of what a 16 year old can do. Interesting that you charge people as war criminals for using 16 year olds at gun fodder but your own government sez its ok at 17.
Pure BS SabreKai. The US Army bars all soldiers under the age of 18 from combat duty. The minimum age for enlistment is 17, then you go to boot and whatever training you are assigned. Also, your parents must sign for your enlistment at 17. We do not draft, and we do not force children to fight. What dont I understand? BTW, I also understand what a 16 year olds parents can do...
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:34   #448
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If you are a cruel cynic and you think that Jessica's attempt at is all a stunt, then I truly pity you, as I feel you have forgotten what its like to be young and what was your initial attraction to the ocean.
Glenn
I imagine this sentiment is shared by many of us... well put!

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Old 01-10-2009, 06:48   #449
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I know for a fact that I do not know how to perform open heart surgery,
I know for a fact that I'm not ready to singlehand the southern ocean in winter. Thats two examples.....
But these are known unknowns, you cannot possibly know the unknown unkowns, because by definition they are unknown, and it is these that can bite you.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:01   #450
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But these are known unknowns, you cannot possibly know the unknown unkowns, because by definition they are unknown, and it is these that can bite you.
I didn't realize you are Donald Rumsfeld
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