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Old 29-09-2009, 20:49   #421
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I haven't seen anyone wish for her to fail - but there are a lot of us who want her and the adult influences in her life to rethink this foolish quest. It's not that we have issues with neophytes having an adventure per se - if you look at the Bumfuzzle thread you'll see I was a supporter. There are lots of ways to indulge a love affair with the sea without taking unnecessary risks.

One of the cynical old men.

My words were willing her to fail, not wishing. Go back over the 420 posts and tell me that everyone wants her to succeed. You say you don't have issues with neophtytes having an adventure, do you know anything about Jessica's background or sailing experience? Or just what you have read on this forum or in the press.
You were a supporter? What happened to change your mind? Did she make a mistake? If you have never made one before I will be 1st to congratulate you.
At 15 I was working paying taxes and living by myself in the adult world, so I do consider 16 being an adult.
Finally risk? Do you know what a risk assessment is? (risk = consequences measured against probability)If you do you will see, as I have mentioned several times before, she has more chance being killed or injured in a car crash. If she stays home.

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Old 29-09-2009, 21:12   #422
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She's SIXTEEN YEARS OLD!!! Wars have been fought, babies raised, oceans crossed, and battles won by people younger than her.
It must be nice on your planet, Jace. On mine teenagers are kids. Currently we prosecute people who use 16 year olds in war as war criminals...Listen, no 16 year old should be single handing the Southern Ocean in winter. They are simply not capable of basing their decisions on experience. Most sane adults know better...she simply does not know what she does not know.
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Old 29-09-2009, 21:32   #423
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To MarkJ -
Maybe.
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Old 29-09-2009, 22:07   #424
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Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni View Post
Finally risk? Do you know what a risk assessment is? (risk = consequences measured against probability)If you do you will see, as I have mentioned several times before, she has more chance being killed or injured in a car crash. If she stays home.

Cheers Mate,

Glenn
Horse Pucky! The likelihood of her overdosing, dying in a car crash, or otherwise expiring living at home and going to school are negligible as compared to the odds of dying in the Roaring 40's alone on a 34' boat. We're not a school or orphanage or "health and safety" bureau here ( are you really a health and safety professional? ), we are a sailing club, fraternity, sorority, mechanic's consulting collective and, perhaps an alcoholic support group. But the subject is about a girl/young woman sailing alone rtw below the fierce capes in death-defying conditions.
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Old 29-09-2009, 23:47   #425
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Horse Pucky? Oh it makes a difference because she is a girl/young woman?
So it was alright for 16 yo Jessie Martin to do it because he was boy/young man?
Good lord man don't tell me your sexist as well.
Do you sail? All good ocean sailors will do a risk assessment before they go to sea. Because sea safety is paramount, oh yes I'm Health and Safety Professional and a very experienced waterman.
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Old 30-09-2009, 03:39   #426
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Horse Pucky? Oh it makes a difference because she is a girl/young woman?...
In general, and on average, it certainly does. All anthropomorphic studies have come to the conclusion that, in direct comparison, men (and post-pubescent boys) are stronger than women (and post-pubescent girls).

If one aspect of successfully circumnavigating alone is strength and endurance (I’m certain it is), then a skinny (“coltish”) little girl is less physically prepared for such a venture than a comparably skinny little boy. However, most 16 year old boys will be taller, heavier, and stronger than their chronological female counterparts, further emphasizing the physical differences. Jessica shows no outward evidence of extraordinary physical maturity.

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... Those that are concerned for Jessica's safety should look at the road toll statistics in Australia, 26% of deaths and serious injuries are between the ages of 16 & 23. So my take is she is safer out at sea ...
Which speaks to the intellectual maturity of adolescents. Surely, you don’t advise an “out of the frying pan, into the fire” (substituting one statistically dangerous activity for another) philosophy of child rearing?
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Old 30-09-2009, 03:44   #427
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Old 30-09-2009, 03:46   #428
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I would say Gord your good with the facts and hope in a pinch they will do you well experience seems to be lacking in your thoughts so guess you better stay behind the desk, at least the youth will give it a try and maybe give more for you to read and report.
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Old 30-09-2009, 03:48   #429
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I have to disagree that gender makes a negative difference in this case. Yes a 16 year old male (on average) will be stronger but I dispute that strength is all that important. One has to fit but not strong to sail a suitable boat anywhere.
I expect a 16 year old female may have more endurance (at least mental) that the male and most females are far more mature at 16 than males. Ask any high school teacher.
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Old 30-09-2009, 03:53   #430
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...... Surely, you don’t advise an “out of the frying pan, into the fire” (substituting one statistically dangerous activity for another) philosophy of child rearing?
I would argue that biology wise she is not a child at 16 but I concede that I don't have sufficient medical knowledge to support this claim.

The child rearing phase for her and her parents are over (and interestingly this is supported in law in Oz).
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Old 30-09-2009, 04:22   #431
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Surely I must give this thread up? I promise I will go to work tommorrow flu or no flu.

But if we are talking maturity, we all know that a 16 year old girl will be far more mature than a 16 year old boy.
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Old 30-09-2009, 05:25   #432
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Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni View Post
My words were willing her to fail, not wishing. Go back over the 420 posts and tell me that everyone wants her to succeed.
Go back over the 420 posts and tell me who is willing her to fail. There's difference between not wanting her to succeed and not wanting her to attempt.
Quote:
You say you don't have issues with neophtytes having an adventure, do you know anything about Jessica's background or sailing experience? Or just what you have read on this forum or in the press.
Other than what's in the press and on her page, what is there to know? And what difference does that make?
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You were a supporter? What happened to change your mind? Did she make a mistake? If you have never made one before I will be 1st to congratulate you.
I supported the Bumfuzzles throughout - they completed their circumnavigation; there was 2 on board, they didn't hold to a schedule, they took the cruising route and they weren't trying to make it into the record books. Oh yeah, they were adults.
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At 15 I was working paying taxes and living by myself in the adult world, so I do consider 16 being an adult.
In an adult world surrounded by adults that were there to help. Big difference from being all alone far from help.
Quote:
Finally risk? Do you know what a risk assessment is? (risk = consequences measured against probability)If you do you will see, as I have mentioned several times before, she has more chance being killed or injured in a car crash. If she stays home.
But she has a better chance of a healthy diet, necessary sleep, and emotional and social development opportunities if she stays a home, or cruises safely with other people.

BTW, Jessie Martin was 17 1/2 years old when he set out. I don't support the idea of solo RTW sailing, so regardless of his age I wouldn't have supported his venture either.
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Old 30-09-2009, 06:58   #433
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I don't support the idea of solo RTW sailing, .
Yep that bloody Ellen macarthur and that froggie Francis Joyon - idiots the both of them and as for that absolute fool Robin Knox-Johnson well what can I say - it was obviously that other idiot Joshua Slocum that started all this madness.
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Old 30-09-2009, 07:59   #434
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I would say Gord your good with the facts and hope in a pinch they will do you well experience seems to be lacking in your thoughts so guess you better stay behind the desk ...
What specifically is it, that your superior (to my limited exposure) experience, which suggests that my accurate facts (which you don’t dispute) don’t represent a likely reality?

Often, knowing a few facts, allows one to extrapolate a general/fundamental principle from a single simple observation.
This can be very helpful to those of us (like I) who haven’t actually experienced, and learned from, every possible occurrence.

Some interesting & informative reading:
http://sociology.camden.rutgers.edu/...ial/errors.htm
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Old 30-09-2009, 11:34   #435
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My this is an interesting threat. And a little hot tempered I would say. It is interesting to see what people consider a responsible age. At 13 I was boarding in a home that was not related to me, holding down three different jobs, and making my way in the world. As a physician ( I am a MD) I would state that women usually are smaller and weaker than men, but Dame McArthur has shown that difference is not very important.
The southern ocean at 16? I would not recommend it. But I am not going to do it now at 51 either. I would miss all those south pacific islands...
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