Yachting FAIL - Jessica Watson

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sandinmytea

What's the technical name (or product) for the chart you show, that demonstrates the likelihood of Force 8 wind conditions in a given area?

They are called Pilot Charts and they are available for all oceans/areas
You can buy them for the boat and are an excellent invest,ment. Or download them for free.... Gord always has the link....

Maritime Safety Information

Then in left menu click: Publications

Then drop down menu: Atlas of Pilot Charts

Then the ocean you are looking at.

The amount of information will keep you absorbed for hours. I still prefer my paper versions

[roverhi]

I just tried to look at the North Pacific Pilot Chart and it says there are no files associated with the Pilot Chart map #. Checked a few of the other areas and they have the pilot charts. Wondering what gives as I have a full set of the paper charts at home so know they exist.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by S&S

Returning to our regularly scheduled broadcast.....
Did she get her rig fixed and is there a new scheduled departure date?

You are Kidding right?

That seemed like an attempt to get this thread back on track... all hope of that was lost about 258 posts back...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Interesting observations. On the flip side of the coin, I've found that newbie watchkeepers in the give-way ship have some bizarre need to close the stand-on vessel to about 2 miles, then make the required alteration (regardless of when they've assessed the situation). If your confident WK above stood his ground, I'm sure the opposing ship would have taken action at 2 miles.

I understand what you are saying and depending on closing speed, 2nm may be sufficient, but even at 20knts closing, that only allows about 6 minutes for intentions to be made clear, before collision.

Simulator training on large ships will teach you to make your intentions known early enough around the 4 to 3 ranges if you are the give way vessel, so as to open up the CPA to a safe distance by making a readily apparent course change, then return to your original course when the safe CPA is achieved.

You are then in sight of each other and can monitor CPA if the stand on vessel has other ideas.

Conversely, if you are the stand on vessel and at about 3nm nothing is happening, you can show your Red light for a couple of minutes, before returning to original to clarify your intentions on which side you wish to pass.

In the simulator, if you wait till 2nm, the examiner often throws in a

• Mechanical failure,
• Kamikaze target
• Or ghost fishing/sail boat
• Or all of the above

to make your next few minutes an “interesting” lesson.

One of the biggest dangers is pure boredom by the other ship or even your own WK. If the other vessel appears interesting, they will often want to get close for a look, so making your intentions quite clear before that happens inside 2nm is a wise habit in open seas

I am only talking about “open sea” scenarios as was the case for Jessica.

In that kind of situation if I step on the bridge and we are inside 3nm with a 0 CPA, a few quiet words are firmly spoken.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

you can show your Red light for a couple of minutes, before returning to original to clarify your intentions on which side you wish to pass.

.

Good point to remember when its sail v's ship is that sail can show a Green light and think they are showing right of way. Where the ship thinks the Green light means the ship have the right of way.
At night its hard to differentiate between a sailing vessel (which are extremely rare!) or a fishing boat with a bad steaming light!

[cat man do]

Mark, Have you seen many vessels up there yet that have a flashing yellow on top like these



Very bright, could see them for miles, but had no idea where the hell they were going.

In QLD at night, the trawlers are lit up like daytime with tennis court style lights, no idea where they were going or where the nets where.

Common sense said stay the hell away, just like you should with big ships.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Mark, Have you seen many vessels up there yet that have a flashing yellow on top like these



Very bright, could see them for miles, but had no idea where the hell they were going.

In QLD at night, the trawlers are lit up like daytime with tennis court style lights, no idea where they were going or where the nets where.

Common sense said stay the hell away, just like you should with big ships.

I vaguely remember in the annex part of the lights that “flashing amber” had something to do with a Hovercraft operating in the non displacement mode, but cannot remember if that was a purely UK rule.

In any case the warning to keep clear is apparent but would be more than useless if everyone used them

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Mark, Have you seen many vessels up there yet that have a flashing yellow on top like these



Very bright, could see them for miles, but had no idea where the hell they were going.

Yep. the orange flashing ones are weird, sometimes they have red. The strobe white lights are weird too because they are such low power that the boat is much closer than you think.
The first time we saw one Nic was on watch and she woke me up so there I was on deck patiently explaining to her that bright lights are a loooooong way away. She said "Then why can I hear his engine?" I screamed quietly "HARD TO STARBOARD!!!!!" as we missed the pucker by a few inches.

A few weeks later Nic wakes me and I am gently explaining to her that of course theres a white light above the red light! Then she says: "we are in Indonesia, since when have they had correct nav lights?" I pick up the binoculars and say: "Its definitly a small motor vessel thats just passed a small island". The vessel is off the port bow and the island is off the starboard bow. She says "Does that Island look like it has a faint christmas tree lit up?" No, they are Muslim.... "Then why is the island getting bigger?" I screamed quietly "HARD TO STARBORD!!!!" as we missed the huge unlit barge being towed by the tug. The tug had White Above Red but no red nav light LOL The barge had... well... maybe a TV being watched.

Common sense said stay the hell away, just like you should with big ships.

Yes, after 45 experiments we feel that staying the hell away is better LOLOL I get more sleep that way!
I can't wait to get back to some place where Nav lights are on more than 10% of the boats

[sandinmytea]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

They are called Pilot Charts and they are available for all oceans/areas
You can buy them for the boat and are an excellent invest,ment. Or download them for free.... Gord always has the link....

Maritime Safety Information

Then in left menu click: Publications

Then drop down menu: Atlas of Pilot Charts

Then the ocean you are looking at.

The amount of information will keep you absorbed for hours. I still prefer my paper versions

Holy smokes. Yeah, there goes sleep for a few nights. I eat this stuff up.

Thanks!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I vaguely remember in the annex part of the lights that “flashing amber” had something to do with a Hovercraft operating in the non displacement mode, but cannot remember if that was a purely UK rule.

In any case the warning to keep clear is apparent but would be more than useless if everyone used them

International rule 23(b). The US Inland rules and Canadian modifications also specify a special flashing yellow light for vessels pushed ahead.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

International rule 23(b). .

I have tried to remind these damn foreigners of the correct Rules to go by. Somehow I don't believe they give a toss.

For all the faults of our own countries we keep bleating on about, we of the civilized nations are very law abiding ...

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by roverhi

I just tried to look at the North Pacific Pilot Chart and it says there are no files associated with the Pilot Chart map #. Checked a few of the other areas and they have the pilot charts. Wondering what gives as I have a full set of the paper charts at home so know they exist.

The Pilot Charts for the South Atlantic Ocean (105) and the North Pacific Ocean (108) exist on paper, but have not yet been digitally converted, so aren’t available for download on-line.

Atlas of Pilot Charts
➥ Maritime Safety Information

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I understand what you are saying and depending on closing speed, 2nm may be sufficient, but even at 20knts closing, that only allows about 6 minutes for intentions to be made clear, before collision.

Simulator training on large ships will teach you to make your intentions known early enough around the 4 to 3 ranges if you are the give way vessel, so as to open up the CPA to a safe distance by making a readily apparent course change, then return to your original course when the safe CPA is achieved.

In that kind of situation if I step on the bridge and we are inside 3nm with a 0 CPA, a few quiet words are firmly spoken.

Having instructed and assessed many students in simulators, as well in reality - I stand by my observation that inexperienced WKs tend to stand on to the last possible moment. I don't know if this is a navyism as we generally have fairly junior people instructing the newbies; but I tend to believe it's a problem on the civ side too based on my encounters at sea as the stand-on. If anything I think simulators give a false appreciation of just how close you are, due to the lack of depth perception, but agree that the operators can make things interesting. Experience teaches you that altering early is ultimately more efficient. You don't need to wait until you're at 3-4 miles either; if you have a solid assessment of the situation there's no reason not to make your alteration at 6 miles or further (in open ocean).

Conversely, if you are the stand on vessel and at about 3nm nothing is happening, you can show your Red light for a couple of minutes, before returning to original to clarify your intentions on which side you wish to pass.

Are you saying turn on sidelights, or are you indicating you should alter course temporarily? I prefer the 34(d) signal, but wait until within hearing range. At 3 miles I might try VHF.

[Jimske]

Good one!!!

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Jim, they only go around Cape Horn and Cape of Good Hope once. Whats the problem?

Now, I hand to you in evidence the January Pilot of Australia to Cape Horn - is January the best month? I think thats when she is expected there - Look at the percentage days of Gales above Force 8. Hardly ever a day of blow... 18%, 19% chance only. And in some places between Australia just 15% chance of a Force 8. Nearly negligible! Theres even a 10% square! Lower!
And the passage would only be 2 months (perhaps 3 months)... say its 2 months @ 15% Gales = 9 days.

So she will only be expected to get 9 days of gales 34+ Knots on this leg. Thats nothing! Any 16 year old should be able to handle that!

Look at her experience: In the Brisbane area a place of 0% gales or 1% gales. So in all her years of sailing she will have had 0% or 1% of her days in Force 8 gales. Shes a regular Gale girl!

If she gets into trouble she can ring home: 1/2 way is only 3,000 NMs a bit more than the distance between New York and LA. Then Mumma can help and Dada can complain to the media and Ella Bache can move their sponsorship onto the 15 year old American girl...




"Sea Life" is in a Zero % Gale area I'm glad I don't have to prove nuffin



Mark

[chris_gee]

The South Pacific pilot charts are available electronically having just got them today.
.
The wind rose on the next page gives the average wind force and direction. Namely 63% of force 6 from NW -W and balance of average F4. Even if the percentage of gales is only 19% given the extremely long fetch and predominant winds very high seas are likely. It still remains likely to be daunting with the combination of wind and sea state.