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Old 25-10-2006, 09:35   #1
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Yacht Moquini disaster

I seem to remember some discussion here (although it may have been another forum) about keel failures and when I posted information about the yacht Moquini there was much speculation that it had hit a container or other flotsam.

There has been a follow up on the Cruising Connection forum that makes for interesting reading. Those of you with fin keels should read this carefully.

http://www.cruisingconnections.co.za...71&whichpage=2

Cheers, Deep
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Old 25-10-2006, 13:31   #2
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A sad ending...

All you have to do to send most cruising sailors into a raging fit is to mention floating containers. Certainly there are some out there, but of all the risks faced, that seems to be sooooo far down the list.

All I have to do is survey the flotsam along the coast here on the west side of North America. I have never seen a container come ashore, but huge numbers of other things from trees to telephone poles, to ship's hatch covers that I would not want to hit at 7 knots on a dark night.

I think it just reflects the standard psychology of risk assessment. We as humans always overestimate magnitude of a risk if we feel we have no control over it, and it seems we add another multiplier on top of that if we feel it is some other person's fault.

Bill
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Old 25-10-2006, 18:18   #3
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Quote:
I think it just reflects the standard psychology of risk assessment. We as humans always overestimate magnitude of a risk if we feel we have no control over it, and it seems we add another multiplier on top of that if we feel it is some other person's fault.
It's sad to say I think you are right.

Because it actually happened it means it will happen to you seems to be the idea. Of course if is someone elses fault since we assume that risks we find out about now are toally new and never happened until we found out. I mean it would have already been on the TV news if it was already true.

The idea is the risk was always nothing until this event came along and ruined it. It has to be the fault of someone we could actually blame and chastise in some really harsh way. Then of course the risk goes away because we sure taught them a lesson.

It could be worse - we could all be sailing space ships in orbit. Way big and nasty trash floating up there. As humans we don't like limits.
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Old 25-10-2006, 23:53   #4
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From the cited web page:
Quote:
The DIT reported that visual inspection and wall thickness testing showed, in the area of the keel, that the yacht did not conform to design specification and "the workmanship is appallingly substandard".
Quote:
It is unlikely the yacht hit a container . . . because there would be damage to the hull elsewhere," the DIT study found.
Quote:
The Samsa report pointed out the yacht was, in fact, taking in water when it sailed to Mauritius to start the race and it had been involved in a prior minor collision with a vessel called Gumption and then repaired. The report noted that, in contravention of the Merchant Shipping Act, Samsa had no record of this collision.
Read the last message on that page for an even longer list of what went wrong.

I guess the main important message is "don't use poor construction techniques" and "don't deviate from the design".

One recommendation I find interesting: paint the bottom of your boat in a highly visible color so it will be easy to see when capsized. I used to have black, but now I have pale green bottom paint. Maybe safety orange would be better, though the part above the water would certainly clash with the rest of the boat...
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Old 26-10-2006, 15:45   #5
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Disaster

Stick to cruising in metal hulls and forget about the floatsam.
Brent
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Old 27-10-2006, 12:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coot
One recommendation I find interesting: paint the bottom of your boat in a highly visible color so it will be easy to see when capsized. I used to have black, but now I have pale green bottom paint. Maybe safety orange would be better, though the part above the water would certainly clash with the rest of the boat...

The Offshore Special Regulations (http://www.sailing.org/specialregs/), which apply to racing boats but are also useful for those preparing cruising boats, makes the following recommendations:

4.02.1 To assist in SAR location:-

a) Each yacht shall show at least 4m2 of fluorescent
pink or orange or yellow colour as far as possible in
a single area on the coachroof and/or deck where it
can best be seen
(Categories: MoMu0)

b) Each yacht is recommended to show at least 1m2 of
fluorescent pink or orange or yellow colour as far as
possible in a single area on the coachroof and/or
deck where it can best be seen
(Categories: MoMu1)

4.02.2 Each yacht shall show on the underside, where they
can be seen when inverted, an area on each hull of
highly-visible colour (e.g. Day-Glo pink, orange, or
yellow) of at least 1m2.
(Categories: Mu0,1,2,3,4)

4.02.3 Each yacht is recommended to show on each
underwater appendage an area of highly-visible colour
(Categories: MoMu0,1)


Some brightly colored anti-fouling paints include:

Nautix A9 TSpeed Fluoro

Pettit Vivid

E-Paint 2000



Also, all the racers know that orange foils are fast.
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Old 27-10-2006, 17:53   #7
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Would a catamaran ride over a submerged container better than a monhull?
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Old 16-11-2006, 13:30   #8
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Our son Duncan hit a container at night 2 years ago just north of Menorca in the Mediterranean in our Beneteau 38 Bagheera. There was little wind, so they were moving at only about 4 knots, but the impact stopped the boat dead in the water.

No water was coming into the boat and they proceeded cautiously towards Mahon, the nearest haul-out facility and at daybreak Duncan went over the side to check out the damage. He found a hole in the bow starting about 3 inches below the waterline and 3 inches wide and 18 inches long, with shattered fiberglass bits trailing from each side.

The reason that no water had entered was because of a precaution that I had taken back in '85 when commissioning Bagheera. I filled all the cavities between the inner hull (grid) and the outer hull with high density foam. At the stem, where the damage was, this foam was 5 inches thick and had completely sealed out the ocean. Without it the boat would have gone down in minutes.

In one of our articles in Blue Water Sailing magazine some years ago and before this incident titled 'After 70,000 miles' I mentioned this precaution against collisions and the Head of Beneteau USA was prompted to write to the magazine assuring owners that this was completely unnecessary! I am sorry to have proved him wrong and do suggest to those who buy a modern fiberglass yacht with a grid to follow our example, ensuring that any limber holes remail open. It might save your boat too.
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Old 25-11-2006, 00:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul
Would a catamaran ride over a submerged container better than a monhull?
The Oram 44c "Outahia" was motored onto a reef at 5-6 knots on Keppel Island on her maiden voyage. The only significant damage was to the rudders, which kicked up as designed, but then when the boat started to drift backward and bounce up and down on the reef they were damaged.

They were not really designed to cope with impacts in reverse.

The cat was dried out on the beach for inspection, and apart from some very minor dents there was no damage at all.

The rudders were repaired on the beach, but later one broke off, however that wasnt really missed apart from the fact that the autopilot didn't seem to be working as well as normal.
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Old 25-11-2006, 09:55   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul
Would a catamaran ride over a submerged container better than a monhull?
This is not a straightfoward question, due to so many differences in design philosophy. It would also be very dependent on how high was the container out of the water .

The biggest problem for a modern mono of the bene/bav/ etc design, is the shallow section fwd leading to very flat bottom very quickly. Thus there would be a very good chance on a submerged container of travelling across the container until stopped by the keel. some of these keels do not appear to be designed for this sort of treatment, and a mono witthout a keel is definitely in a spot of bother.

A long keel mono would just ride up and then probably slide back off.

A cat with LARS keels would do the same as bene/bav, except the lars keelis a lot further foward and rather more interal to the design of the boat. damage would depend on the speed and weight of the cat, and the strength of the leading edge of the lars.

A cat with dagger boards might just break off the dagger board, but could also break out the dagger board trunking .

This is just one example of a container at or just below the waterline
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Old 08-01-2007, 17:14   #11
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Stick to cruising in metal hulls and forget about the containers,debris collisions, keel detachements,etc.
Brent
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Old 08-01-2007, 23:52   #12
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If it is any help, most of the containers that I see have vents on the sides close to the top. These should help them sink.

Containers is low on my list right next to underwater boats. Trees and logs is another thing.
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Old 09-01-2007, 00:57   #13
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I just missed a floating (vertical) submerged log when I last crossed the Strait from Mana to South Island. Certainly wakes you up!
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Old 03-04-2007, 10:53   #14
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Deadheads (vertical floating or almost submerged to submerged) is one of the greatest dangers in the Straits of Georgia between Vancouver Island and the Coast of British Columbia. Many hulls, skegs, props have been damaged by these sleeping giants. When you hit a log that has a six foot diameter butt and goes straight down into the deep for 40 to 60 feet it has no give. It's like hitting a brick wall. And if you have sea conditions giving you a ride you can come down on one and the hull will be breached. There is a deadhead marking program which is primarily volunteer by the boating public, but there is always the one that got away.
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Old 04-04-2007, 15:45   #15
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Disaster

One of my steel 36 footers T-boned a steel barge tied to a dock,at hull speed, no noticeable dammage. Another hit a sunken barge , making contact about 6 inches off the centrline , no dammage but chipped paint . Another pounded across 200 meters of Fijian coral reef, in big surf,. It knocked all the paint off below the waterline, but here was only a barely noticeable dent on the keel bottom. He later collided with a freighter going into Gibralter. It folded over the bulwark and several stanchions and made a small crack in the mast, but not enough dammage to stop him from heading to the carribean a few days later.
We steel boaters don't have a care in the world with regards to containers.
A guy who sailed a fibreglass boat to Fiji and back to BC , later did a trip to Mexico and back in a 36 footer I built him. He said the difference in peace of mind when sailing on a dark night at hull speed was wonderful.
If you are really bothered by the dangers of cargo containers , switch to a steel boat and sleep tight.The answer is that simple.
Brent
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