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Old 14-07-2010, 16:23   #46
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if i was in charge of the world, BP execs would be slowly drowning in crude as we speak, so please don't misinterpret this as a defense of BP, but:

if you drove to work today, turned on the lights, turned on the AC or even ate a piece of internationally imported fruit, then YOU (and i) share in the responsibility for this.

the political/societal will for change that a few have referenced starts at an individual level. one of the most frustrating parts of this disaster to me has been talking to people who are outraged at "those guys" (BP, regulators, politicians, even "our oil dependent society at large") for allowing this to happen and at the same time seem totally unwilling to modify their own behaviors - somehow in denial that they (we) are part of the problem (and as americans, we're kind of a big part of the problem in so much as our per capita energy consumption is through the roof)

if i've gotta tie this into cruising to avoid the political, think about it when you fire up the diesel to gain that extra knot or two
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Old 14-07-2010, 16:25   #47
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Quote:
Of the 192 batches of Florida tar-ball samples sent since mid-May to a Coast Guard laboratory in Connecticut, the vast majority have turned out to be lumps of heavy fuel oil, dark and syrupy as molasses and commonly used to power oceangoing ships ...”
I wonder how much of that is from vessels sunk along the US coast during WW2. 524 vessels were sunk by U-boats in American waters during the war, most between 1942 and 1943. I would think a good many of those are probably leaking oil in fair quantities.
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Old 14-07-2010, 16:44   #48
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I think one of the long reaching effects of the BP spill on cruising and the environment is that our pollution standards will drop dramatically.

Perhaps I am too cynical but it is human nature to often spin disasters into manageable proportions and never look too closely at the latent effects.

There will even be some who will cite this type of fouling as justification to pump out their own tanks and bilges

I think our children will see “tar balls” as natural occurrence and the lack of sea life as being normal.

Perhaps, we as cruisers need to monitor the changes a bit more closely and help to document what is changing.
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Old 14-07-2010, 16:50   #49
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This is an interesting thread. I tend to hang out on a couple of peak oil related sites where I sometimes talk about the sailing life. I see a certain similar sensitivity amongst many posters here, a respect for life (human and not) and a greater than normal understanding of how systems work, including the Earth and humans.

I find myself regularly stunned at the lack of common sense I find in the non-cruising world. And especially among "educated" folks. They have become slaves to the genie in the bottle and because of that have lost nearly all contact with the physical and natural world. Watermen, on the other hand, tend to be much more pragmatic and practical. If you weren't you'd have to be bloody rich to afford the full time maintenance staff and crew.

I appropriate that the thread has continued for truly the viability of our oceans is central to our cruising life style, not to mention our future as a species.

I don't know if that is "political" or not. I can't seem to separate it anymore.
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Old 14-07-2010, 19:31   #50
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I took a hot gas-fired shower this morning, I drove to work, my computer is on, it's made of plastic. I turn off lights and air conditioning when I leave a room. I sail as much as possible but motor when I want to. I try to reduce my impact. I could do better.

However, again in no way defending BP, has anyone thought about what a difficult place to get oil from that area is? The days of Jed Clampett shootin' his gun in the ground and having "bubblin' crude" rise up on his property are over.

The oil is getting ever more difficult to find and get to. Also I saw some "drawings" of the well head and for scale they had an average human penciled in. This equipment is freaking huge and the engineering problems are massive.

Were mistakes made by BP and their sub-contractors? Maybe. Could this have happened with other companies - definitely. But remember. Whomever is out there drilling offshore, right now, is there because we are collectively demanding they be there.

Is BP gonna pay? Definitely. I saw they have some Alaska fields on the block for sale to cover damages on this one. To say we are all gonna pay for this at the pump is true, we are. I am OK with that because we all share the responsibility that goes with digging this stuff up.

In the human endeavor we need to learn how to improve from this. The guy who can dig deeper, in more difficult areas, safely, is the guy who is gonna still be drilling when everyone else is done. The industry will learn from this.

I can see lots of alternatives for most consumption of oil. Air travel is one I am stumped on and it is interesting to me because I am in the industry. Nothing has the energy density to be carried aloft and converted to propulsion that compares to petroleum.

We had a tanker collision here about 6 weeks ago. The amrina got full of oil and the boats were pretty bad. It's cleaned up now and the boats have been cleaned. I wish it didn't happen but we are all human and all fallible.
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Old 14-07-2010, 19:41   #51
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I was curious how many capped oil wells are there in the Gulf? So I went into Google to see. There are around 27,000 capped oil wells in the Gulf. Either we are damned lucky there have not been more spills or its a relatively safe industry.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...gas-oil-well/1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ls-gulf-mexico

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ls-gulf-mexico

How many miners die in coal mines each year? I was suprised its so high.

China, in particular, has the highest number of coal mining related deaths in the world, with official statistic 6,027 deaths in 2004.[15] To compare, 28 deaths were reported in the U.S. in the same year.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining
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Old 15-07-2010, 04:18   #52
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Well lets keep on track here and talk about sailing and cruising. There are 11 people that will never get to go sailing, as they were killed just doing their job, BP strikes again.
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Old 15-07-2010, 08:53   #53
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One thing I've never understood is why they were going to cap this well prior to the accident. According to press accounts, this was an exploratory well (apparently a very successful one) and the plan was to cap it around the time of the accident. Is capping something you always or must do before switching to production? Or, do you just cap these things and wait for the price to go up? Why else would you "temporarily" abandon a new well?
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Old 15-07-2010, 10:08   #54
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I suspect they cap the well to wait until they can get the infrastructure in place to support the production. IE;Pipelines
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Old 15-07-2010, 10:47   #55
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On April 20, 2010, the crew of the Deepwater Horizon was preparing to temporarily abandon BP’s “Macondo” discovery well in Mississippi Canyon. In a few hours, they would have been ready to move the (Deepwater Horizon) drilling rig off location, so that a completion rig could move on.

More ➥ The Oil Drum | What caused the Deepwater Horizon disaster?

Or ➥
What caused the Deepwater Horizon disaster? | Energy Bulletin

Production rigs are very different from Drilling rigs.
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Old 15-07-2010, 11:17   #56
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As usual, thank you, Gord. Da Mule was right. Apparently, you have to cap a well before you can install a production rig. It seemed odd that these rigs can shut off oil flow, but when you swap them out you have to cap the well with cement. As I now understand it, the Deepwater Horizon was also being moved because BP intended to drill and cap another exploratory well in the region.

I guess it's standard procedure and jargon. But, I still think "temporary abadonment" is an odd way to describe the transition from the drilling to the production process. It suggests hoarding for the benefit of no one and nothing except the asset column on the BP balance sheet.
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Old 15-07-2010, 11:59   #57
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the oil causes bottom paint to fail--rendering it rubbery and useless--my sailing partner is in the yard now repairing his boat from our adventures in the gulf --we returned early may--found that 6-8 inches below the waterline--UNDER the water surface, is where the damage was -----the paint was petit trinidad. petit co advised the fail was directly due to oil, as oil is the solvent for the paint.

fact--boats in marinas in the mississippi sound are not allowed to retur4n to marinas after trying sailing on oil. most to all are boomed off.
fact--oilis completey intomississippi sound to the beache3s in gulfport and biloxi and into the backbay in biloxi, and barrier islands are NOT being cleaned....
fact--most to all the shrimp boats in the new orleans area are in port , tied to docks and unemployed and out of business.

fact...grande isle is dead--yes--nothing alive --not even sand fleas or skeeters.
one month ago the oil was already 5 miles into the marshes of louisiana.(pix in another forum)
fact--rigolets is boomed off--no entry to ponchartrain via rigolets.
fishing is closed to the areas of borgne lake and south and into the gulf..more may be closed as we speak.
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Old 15-07-2010, 14:06   #58
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Well, the flow has been stopped for 40 minutes. This means that the crippled well can handle the flowing tubing pressure. We will know in 24-48 hours if the well can handle the shut in tubing pressure (when the pressure around the wellbore equalizes to formation pressure) Keep your fingers (and anything else you think would help) crossed.
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Old 16-07-2010, 01:50   #59
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texsail: information is that the well did indeed have a final, full length, casing string run back to seabed. it is believed, however, the casing hanger was not locked to the wellhead (as is normal practice with an exploratory well). informed speculation has it that the poor cement job allowed the casing hanger to be "pistoned" into the bop stack once the riser was circulated to seawater (and the hydrostatic overburden was reduced). the casing hanger ended up across the shear rams - which are incapable of shearing such a heavy walled forging - thus the shear/seal ram was unable to seal off the well bore.

the terms "temporary abandonment" and "suspension" are pretty much synonomous.
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Old 16-07-2010, 04:37   #60
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NASA images
NASA - NASA Imagery of Oil Spill
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