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01-06-2011, 09:06
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#1
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 8,492
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Water Rescue Failure - SF
Interesting and weird news story about water rescue policy out of SF
Excite News - Man's death in SF Bay prompts rescue policy review
Quote:
Man's death in SF Bay prompts rescue policy review
Jun 1, 3:18 AM (ET)
By SUDHIN THANAWALA
(AP) - Fire crews and police could only watch after a man waded into San Francisco Bay, stood up to his neck and waited. They to do something, but a policy strictly forbade them from trying to save the 50-year-old, officials said.
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See link for full story.
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01-06-2011, 16:27
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#3
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
cg has boats that draw 2-4 ft-- couldnt use those??/ they wereprolly toobusy seeing who is and isnt in compliance with poo regs....
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01-06-2011, 16:31
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#4
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 8,492
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re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Didn't they ban thinking like that in Nuremberg?
"Just following order Sir."
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01-06-2011, 20:49
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
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re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic for CF and be assured if it turns political in anyway it will be yanked.
That said I'll play rescue workers advocate. You are not trained in this in anyway but decide to wade in and rescue the person who has chosen death by hypothermia as his prefered method of departing the mortal coil. He kicks up a fuss and in the struggle swallows a lot of water and drowns. The city and you are now named in a lawsuit for causing the poor mans death because left to his own devices he would have walked out before succombing. Tax payers would prefer not to pay extra for the training but payments must be made to the widow since a city employee acted outside of his/her training and now budget must be cut for training in other areas such as ...
Well, I leave the rest of this to you but I think it's not a stretch to understand why someone might not act.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan
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01-06-2011, 22:40
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#6
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Alameda, California, is an island.
Due to budget concerns, Alameda no longer trains its fire department personnel in water rescue.
Did I mention that Alameda is an island?
Due to the aforementioned budget concerns, the Alameda fire department no longer maintains wetsuits for rescue personnel.
Did I mention that Alameda is an island?
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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01-06-2011, 23:21
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
If there are any non-political conclusions that I could point to from this, it would be the fact that any Sailor would do well to always plan to rely on others as a plan 'B'.
Government is not the answer.... plan accordingly. That EPIRB.. that MAYDAY.. that call for help... none of it beat whatever you can do to prevent needing it in the first place.
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01-06-2011, 23:58
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway
I'm not sure this is an appropriate topic for CF and be assured if it turns political in anyway it will be yanked.
That said I'll play rescue workers advocate. You are not trained in this in anyway but decide to wade in and rescue the person who has chosen death by hypothermia as his prefered method of departing the mortal coil. He kicks up a fuss and in the struggle swallows a lot of water and drowns. The city and you are now named in a lawsuit for causing the poor mans death because left to his own devices he would have walked out before succombing. Tax payers would prefer not to pay extra for the training but payments must be made to the widow since a city employee acted outside of his/her training and now budget must be cut for training in other areas such as ...
Well, I leave the rest of this to you but I think it's not a stretch to understand why someone might not act.
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That is rediculous. If that was the concern of the fire Department or police department they would be advised to simply stay in their station houses, because if they, god forbid, tried to help someone and failed, they would be subject to a POTENTIAL lawsuit. Simply a false argument. Reasonable action to save a person is what the public expects from it's public servants whose jobs are to "serve and protect" the public. Whoever gave the order to do otherwise should be fired!
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02-06-2011, 00:10
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,904
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfinston
That is rediculous. If that was the concern of the fire Department or police department they would be advised to simply stay in their station houses, because if they, god forbid, tried to help someone and failed, they would be subject to a POTENTIAL lawsuit. Simply a false argument. Reasonable action to save a person is what the public expects from it's public servants whose jobs are to "serve and protect" the public. Whoever gave the order to do otherwise should be fired!
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Agreed. Most jurisdictions have "good Samaritan" laws that protect those who are assisting others.
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
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02-06-2011, 00:47
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#10
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3
Agreed. Most jurisdictions have "good Samaritan" laws that protect those who are assisting others.
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But good Samaritan laws, at least in my area, only apply to a helpful, untrained by stander. Professionals like police, fire fighters, doctors, etc, even off duty, are not covered.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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02-06-2011, 04:29
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Boat: Hirondelle Catamaran 23'
Posts: 35
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
The cowards wouldn't even pull the body out of the water. It took and unnamed passerby to swim out and retrieve the body.
__________________
Omnia Mea Mecum Porto - Ovid (Everything I have I carry with me.)
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02-06-2011, 04:54
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hayes, Virginia
Boat: 1962 28' Pearson Triton
Posts: 289
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck
The cowards wouldn't even pull the body out of the water. It took and unnamed passerby to swim out and retrieve the body.
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I know many firefighters and law enforcement officers and I can assure you that "cowardice" is not a personality characteristic these people normally possess. But I will say that "ignorance" is one that applies well to you.
__________________
Jay White
S/V Dove
1962 Pearson Triton, #318
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02-06-2011, 04:54
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,134
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Putting on a contrarian hat. This fellow wanted to commit suicide he did not want to be rescued. So by not attempting to rescue him they allowed him to persue his desire and saved taxpayers a lot of costs in the end too. Better to have them devote their time and effort on those who truly want their help.
__________________
Mike
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02-06-2011, 04:56
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#15
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,507
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Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF
Obviously the person wanted to be rescued, or he would have gone in the water at night. Sometimes you just got to break policy, and do the right thing. I can't imagine the dreams I would have standing there watching a person kill themselves doing nothing ........ i2f
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