Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2011, 06:21   #16
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
Obviously the person wanted to be rescued, or he would have gone in the water at night.
Lemme see if I have this right: you are applying a sane person's logic to someone who committed suicide?

Suicide is a very complex issue, but most experts agree that a person attempting suicide is under extreme psychological distress and not thinking straight. I don't think you can make any statements about what is obvious to you would have made any sense to him.
__________________

__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 06:29   #17
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Are you a phycologist? I am not, but many times people are reaching out for help, and because they are not thinking straight they will do it in an absurd way. I stand by my statement he would've done it in the dark if he wanted to really die.

Have you ever dealt with hypothermia? I have trying to rescue my boat after someone drove over a bouy in the dark. It is not something that happens in a flash, but it takes over quick enough, and then you become helpless.........i2f
__________________

__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:03   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 9,844
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Unless the water is knee deep, it should not be the Alameda Fire Departments responsibility. I agree that neck deep is about 5 feet or so for the typical sized male which is not too shallow for a USCG 25 footer. I see 25 footers all over the SF Bay and this seems to be their primary boat for patrols and rescues inside the Bay

The other aspect is whether or not the government should be involved in stopping a suicide. From the governments perspective, suicide is still illegal therefore it is law enforcement's obligation to stop a suicide. Petition your representatives if you want this law changed.

I know the water there, it is all sand and mudflats that extend out for hundreds of yards when the tide is low. There are no abrupt depth changes or submerged rocks which the Coast Guard would need to worry about. I have run my research boat into that area a number of times along with smaller trailer sized boats for eel grass research and have had no damage to any of the boats.

Isn't it worth taking a little risk to the equipment to save a life? There would have been no risk to personnel by going into shallow water with a sandy/mud bottom and perhaps a little wind chop.

I admire what the USCG does but someone here made a bad decision by choosing not to take a tiny amount of risk in order to save a life.

USCG 25 footer photo...
http://cgvi.uscg.mil/media/main.php?g2_itemId=626095
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:15   #19
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 18,504
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
Lemme see if I have this right: you are applying a sane person's logic to someone who committed suicide?

Suicide is a very complex issue, but most experts agree that a person attempting suicide is under extreme psychological distress and not thinking straight. I don't think you can make any statements about what is obvious to you would have made any sense to him.
Maybe knowing 'Someone gave a $hit' was all he needed to get past the 'Hump'... I notice the report stated he kept looking back before moving deeper...
then he accepted the simple fact... no one on the shore 'Did give a ****...'.
Farewell Cruel World....
__________________

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Click on de Pic 4 de Site^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:18   #20
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I agree that neck deep is about 5 feet or so for the typical sized male which is not too shallow for a USCG 26 footer.
You are correct about the actual draft of the small Safe Boats, but the USCG has operating limits for their equipment, and I think that for the 26' boats, it is 6' minimum depth.

Here is a quote from a case last year in TX where the CG didn't respond, in part due to the depths
Quote:
If the situation were dire, Paulison said, the Coast Guard would not have been able to respond in the shallow waters of Nueces Bay and would have called on the Department of Parks and Wildlife to navigate the 4 foot to 5 foot depths.
Coast Guard: Policy was followed in case of boaters Corpus Christi Caller-Times

So, the USCG probably would not have responded to this situation in any case, due to the shallow water.
__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:27   #21
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 18,504
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
You are correct about the actual draft of the small Safe Boats, but the USCG has operating limits for their equipment, and I think that for the 26' boats, it is 6' minimum depth.

Here is a quote from a case last year in TX where the CG didn't respond, in part due to the depths Coast Guard: Policy was followed in case of boaters Corpus Christi Caller-Times

So, the USCG probably would not have responded to this situation in any case, due to the shallow water.
Thank the gods ye 'Brits' and visitors for the courageous volunteers of the RNLI...
nice to know there's 'Good Guys' somewhere....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...ll/6439857.stm
__________________

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Click on de Pic 4 de Site^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:29   #22
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 9,844
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
You are correct about the actual draft of the small Safe Boats, but the USCG has operating limits for their equipment, and I think that for the 26' boats, it is 6' minimum depth.

Here is a quote from a case last year in TX where the CG didn't respond, in part due to the depths Coast Guard: Policy was followed in case of boaters Corpus Christi Caller-Times

So, the USCG probably would not have responded to this situation in any case, due to the shallow water.
Then the USCG needs to change their depth policy when a life is on the line. Take a little risk. That is their job. Let the coxswain (skipper) use a little discretion.

If the USCG is this risk averse then they should cancel their rescue swimmer program, you know, the guys who jump out of helicopters. This does not seem like one of the safer professions.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 08:53   #23
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,669
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

With limited resources for rescue both sea and shoreside, I would rather we spent these resources on individuals who value life and want to be rescued than running around with safety nets for folks wanting to fling themselves off cliffs and the like. My son is a professional firefighter who deals with these people regularly. Many who they pull back from the brink find a way to do themselves in days or weeks later.
Sounds like this poor soul wanted to go out with bang, not a whimper. Who knows what demons forced him into that situation, terminal illness? love affair gone bad? mental defect? Whatever it was, let him go in peace... just sayin'... Capt Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 09:20   #24
Registered User
 
sww914's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Punta De Mita
Boat: Vagabond 39 Hull # 1
Posts: 1,842
Alameda, Ca police and firefighters watch man drown and do nothing.

Authorities make changes after first responders watch man drown - CNN.com

Their protocol says that they can't go in the water apparently.
__________________
Steve
http://www.landfallvoyages.com
sww914 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 09:32   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 150
Re: Alameda, Ca police and firefighters watch man drown and do nothing.

In boy scouts, they taught us to go in after the person passed out. I don't see why they can't take a boat or go out with a float though.
__________________
rowingdude is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 10:01   #26
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Alameda, Ca police and firefighters watch man drown and do nothing.

already a thread on this today

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-sf-61651.html
__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 10:17   #27
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 9,844
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Same topic. Threads merged.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 10:33   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 585
Images: 3
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Forty years ago no one would have worried about "protocol" or being sued for some contorted interpretation of tort law. People would have just grabbed the guy and pulled him in instead of standing around with their fingers up their.... We've all been stifled to the point of inaction by lawyers, their governmental lackeys, and judicial insanity for years.
__________________
smurphny is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 13:21   #29
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

Litigation has tied the hands of the potential Audy Murphys. It's not my business, or it's not my problem, and just walk on by. The people standing around watching, and only one stepped up. I read in the news article a great suggestion. The people standing around could've created a human chain out to the person. It's a crying shame what this society is turning into. Sorry, I'll step down now..........i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 02-06-2011, 14:43   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 150
Re: Water Rescue Failure - SF

I'm sorry, but it's California, what do you expect?
__________________

__________________
rowingdude is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Tags
rescue, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Universal 5411 - Cooling System Failure and Fresh Water Conversion pmeyer Engines and Propulsion Systems 2 02-05-2015 07:35
Yanmar 3YM30 Raw Water Pump Failure hughfree Engines and Propulsion Systems 24 20-04-2015 08:20
Fedora 13 Compilation Failure . . . PorkLoin OpenCPN 9 20-09-2010 23:38
Raw Water Failure - and a Few Other Kinks Jetexas Engines and Propulsion Systems 19 08-06-2010 10:14
rig failure? irwinsailor Dollars & Cents 3 18-02-2008 08:26


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.