Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2018, 05:20   #1
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,534
Images: 25
WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

From gCaptain:


Quote:
US Coast Guard Report: A 10,000 TEU container ship lost about 70 containers overboard on Saturday night while about 17 miles off Oregon Inlet, North Carolina.

The U.S. Coast Guard is warning mariners of navigation hazards.

The 324-meter Maersk Shanghai contacted USCG watch standers at Sector North Carolina’s command center via VHF-FM marine radio channel 16 on Saturday evening notifying them that they lost approximately 70 to 73 cargo containers due to high winds and heavy seas.
For more see (click on) gCaptain.

More information on the subject of containers adrift is available at Ocean Navigator.
__________________

__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 11:42   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 18
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

This is really getting crazy, they need to resolve this and stop it from happening. Come up with a better way of transporting things or attach the containers to the ship better. Or have some sort of GPS on the thing so it can be picked up.i wonder if they are all buoyant or if some sink, they should make it so if they are submerged in water that automatically will sink. But then of course we'll be purposely polluting the seas, there's no telling what those containers have inside them.
__________________

__________________
shayski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 12:49   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,478
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Most sink as they fill with water. However a container full of tennis shoes will never sink....
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 15:42   #4
RPZ
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 243
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Viewing the way these are loaded and "secured" these are stacked only secured to the unit beneath each one. So these stacks can topple and peel off the ships. They need to be secured with cross bracing trusses on the top so all the container stacks are held together no matter how much sea is washing above the hull and how much the ships are rolling and pitching.

I agree with the gps markers. Then in the unlikely event some become detached and go overboard, the coast guards, air forces and navies need to to use them for gunnery practice and sink them when they are spotted.
__________________
RPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 10:39   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cebu
Boat: Cranchi Atlantique 48
Posts: 274
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Should they not pay for collecting the stray containers? Just like after an oil spill.
__________________
Zven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 11:04   #6
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,575
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPZ View Post
Viewing the way these are loaded and "secured" these are stacked only secured to the unit beneath each one. So these stacks can topple and peel off the ships. They need to be secured with cross bracing trusses on the top so all the container stacks are held together no matter how much sea is washing above the hull and how much the ships are rolling and pitching.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm not sure whether this is unreasonable or unrealistic or both.

Those containers are taken off the ships and dropped onto trailers to be pulled behind trucks. Weight is the controlling issue, not their safety at sea. If it was the latter, they already would be. The shipping companies and their insurance companies have already done the cost/benefit analysis.

The structural integrity of them for this new purpose is near zero. The "cross bracing trusses on the top..." will do nothing structurally to respond to your not unreasonable suggestion. The issue is VERTICAL integrity: how to keep them from sliding off the top when the ship heels excessively. Essentially, the way they work now is almost simple gravity with a meager lock that is undone by the crane operator.

To implement any changes would be to require the complete redesign and possible replacement of ALL of the existing shipping containers. Somehow, I doubt this is gonna happen. There are a tad few of those containers out there, are there not?
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 09:23   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Ky
Boat: Catalina 22
Posts: 44
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Least to say we / they could look at the situation and plan some improvements. We no longer live in caves and run from animals because we have improved. We no longer dump raw sewage and garbage into the ocean in most of the 1st world because we have improved. The 1st step is to address and acknowledge this system of shipping needs improvements. Kind Regards, Lou
__________________
Lou254 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 10:27   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 547
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Most sink as they fill with water. However a container full of tennis shoes will never sink....
Several containers full of sneakers sank off the Oregon coast a few years ago. Nikes were washing up on the beach for months. It was kind of a game with beachcombers to put together as many matching pairs as they could find...
__________________
toddster8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 10:47   #9
SuW
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Morrisburg, ON
Boat: 1976 Bayfield 32
Posts: 72
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

As always this story brings to mind the working people who risk their lives bringing us our cheap stuff:
“The Clock is Ticking”: Inside the Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades.
__________________
SuW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 11:32   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: 1980 Hunter 36
Posts: 729
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zven View Post
Should they not pay for collecting the stray containers? Just like after an oil spill.
Bad example since you only need 10-15% oil recovery to be classified as a success, and the companies basically cover a fraction of this from their own pockets.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...ion-180959783/

That'd still leave a heck of a lot of containers floating around!
__________________
S/V Gudgeon
www.gudgeonblog.ca
alctel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 13:19   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 16
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
To implement any changes would be to require the complete redesign and possible replacement of ALL of the existing shipping containers. Somehow, I doubt this is gonna happen. There are a tad few of those containers out there, are there not?
Or just stick a dorade box on it for $5 including installation. Something akin to:

A Revolution in Marine Safety - Container Sinka

The question is what amount of loss of life will be required before such devices will be mandated by insurance/govt.
__________________
Singularity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 13:51   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,925
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Or just stick a dorade box on it for $5 including installation. Something akin to:

A Revolution in Marine Safety - Container Sinka

The question is what amount of loss of life will be required before such devices will be mandated by insurance/govt.
First, when I tried this link my antivirus blocked the site and gave me a pop up that it's infected.

Second, containers don't need a dorade. They are no more water-tight than a tea strainer. Might not fill up and sink in seconds but I would guess an hour or so tops, unless as previously mentioned, it's a container full of something with enough buoyancy to float the whole thing.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2018, 20:57   #13
RPZ
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 243
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
I'm not sure whether this is unreasonable or unrealistic or both.

Those containers are taken off the ships and dropped onto trailers to be pulled behind trucks. Weight is the controlling issue, not their safety at sea. If it was the latter, they already would be. The shipping companies and their insurance companies have already done the cost/benefit analysis.

The structural integrity of them for this new purpose is near zero. The "cross bracing trusses on the top..." will do nothing structurally to respond to your not unreasonable suggestion. The issue is VERTICAL integrity: how to keep them from sliding off the top when the ship heels excessively. Essentially, the way they work now is almost simple gravity with a meager lock that is undone by the crane operator.

To implement any changes would be to require the complete redesign and possible replacement of ALL of the existing shipping containers. Somehow, I doubt this is gonna happen. There are a tad few of those containers out there, are there not?
They slide off because there is nothing binding the top layer. It wouldn't take any engineering genius to design clamping braces that could be lowered on to the top layers holding them together, and remove before offloading the containers.

Otherwise containers could be redesigned to interlock horizontally as well as vertically, old ones phased out.

Other option would be to require container ships to have a containment structure integral with the hull and deck structure the full height of a maximum load.
__________________
RPZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2018, 12:51   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Seattle
Boat: Work: Ships/Tugs Play: Grand Banks 36
Posts: 78
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPZ View Post
They slide off because there is nothing binding the top layer. It wouldn't take any engineering genius to design clamping braces that could be lowered on to the top layers holding them together, and remove before offloading the containers.

Otherwise containers could be redesigned to interlock horizontally as well as vertically, old ones phased out.

Other option would be to require container ships to have a containment structure integral with the hull and deck structure the full height of a maximum load.
They don't simply slide off. Twist locks are at all four corners. For each container to container interaction, they lock in just as tight as the spreader bar used on the cranes to lift them on and off the ship. You can find photos of containers almost 90 deg to horizontal and still being held on by the twistlocks. Granted, the weight of the entire box and cargo will have a big role in that. The lowest two tiers above deck (or cell guides, if fitted) are also lashed with crossbars and tightened with turnbuckles (to varying degree). The point of failure tends to be at twist lock connections right above the uppermost lashed container. The containers above that one can exert quite a lever arm and once they get moving side to side, or knocked into from an adjacent wayward stack, enormous forces are exerted on a relatively small connection that subsequently fails. It's rare for a single box at the top of the stack to simply be washed over - unless it was never locked in properly in the first place.

Not all containers have equal heights and stack heights vary for many reasons so it's not as simple to just say to throw a truss over each stack. Early container ships did have lashings alongside the upper tiers that were intended to prevent sway as the ship rolled, but they fell out of favor at some point, probably as twist locks became more reliable. They would also be labor intensive to set and remove.

Intermodal containers are very much designed around their time spent at sea. No other mode, for example, utilizes the lashing points on the rear and sides of the corners - those are solely for lashing bars on ships. Rail and trucks just use twist locks. When packing a container that's going to sea, you pack it to protect the contents during that part of the voyage - it's the most dynamic and usually the longest.

Your last suggestion (higher cell guides) is the most realistic but won't come about without change in regulation (ie, everyone has to play by the same rules so no one loses a cost advantage since container shipping is extremely competitive, even among other kinds of shipping). These guides do allow the lashings to get to tiers higher up, which would exert less leverage on the entire stack as the ship rolls. However, higher cell guides is more steel weight above G, which turns into less cargo weight that can be carried up there. You're also then imposing various container size restrictions within the cell guides (there are containers longer than 40's and they must go on deck at least one tier above the hatches or cell guides).

The industry (at least those of us who actually work on ships) is aware of this and it's been happening a lot more lately as it seems. It's frustrating for us as well. Cargo lost overboard is bad for other mariners, can be bad for the environment, usually damages the ship and of course is bad for our customers. Until ship designs change, and in my view it will have to happen through regulation at the IMO level, all the crews can really do is check & tighten lashings and avoid the worst of the weather as best as possible/practical.
__________________
Watermann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2018, 13:55   #15
Registered User
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 503
Re: WARNING--Shipping Containers Adrift off N. Carolina Coast

Rotate the containers 90° when loading them, then don't load the front two rows as high....... Problem solved.
__________________

__________________
Regards
Dave
In my defence I was left without adequate supervision !
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
shipping

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shipping Containers in SF Bay & at Sea Fluer de Mer Monohull Sailboats 50 01-03-2017 23:16
Shipping Containers on Radar zboss Marine Electronics 11 28-10-2013 14:31
Containers in the Water Off New Zealand LakeSuperior Cruising News & Events 4 13-10-2011 20:33
Shipping containers (navigation hazard) exfishnz Navigation 31 01-01-2009 08:47



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.