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Old 25-12-2015, 13:01   #121
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Most people overlook one Item that we all carry onboard and is not only legal but is required by the coast guard and will strike fear with any boater. A FLARE GUN! and your pyrotechnic devices. a shotgun with dragons breath, deer slugs, #00 Buck. I would not like to have a speargun pointed in my direction as well. always think about ways and places to store firearms that are secret and safe. Improvise, keep your weapons a secret, and think about what the legal aspects of using deadly force and what charges you may have to face if you use deadly force especially outside the United States. It is always better to be pro-active rather than reactive.
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:04   #122
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
Give them a break, MF, the yanks are running scared shitless right now, paranoia rules their world
What is it with you people? A few nutcase and you have to respond with comments like this one?

I'm not "running scared shitless" right now and paranoia does not rule my world.

Why lump all Americans into your narrow minded perspective?
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:07   #123
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Wow, I really didn't want to start a feud amongst friends as I'm sure you all are here.

I'm as peace loving as anyone I know and am very proud of the fact I have never had to take another's life or even shoot someone. But I will not stand and watch someone I care about be molested.
And if someone is pointing a gun or machete or pocket knife at you they mean they will hurt or kill you at their leisure, you have to remember that. I have heard tails that just showing an AR-15 or AK-47 will send wrongdoers on their way to bother someone else and we all hope that is all we would need do.
I don't know anyone that wants to take someone else's life but there are many in this world that would kill you for the change in your pockets. Maybe they aren't the ones that are trying to board your boat maybe these are the ones that will be satisfied with just taking the things that you worked for but they may also be the ones that want your wife or your daughter, or maybe if they get by with this little bit of meanness next time they will be brave enough to take more than just the trinkets. You see you really don't know who you are dealing with.

I am really glad to hear about the folks that have sailed for 40 years with no problems and I pray that when we get our ride we can say the same in the end.

Again sorry for pouring salt in this wound but not if it helps someone see that being armed isn't a bad thing.
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:08   #124
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahoogha 3 times View Post
Most people overlook one Item that we all carry onboard and is not only legal but is required by the coast guard and will strike fear with any boater. A FLARE GUN!
Actually, quite a few posts mention flare guns.
They also mention they aren't legal in a lot of countries (unless you have a permit) - you'll have to check local laws as you go.

In the Netherlands, for instance, you need the same permit for a flare gun as you do for a 'regular' gun.
There are also very strict laws as to how and where to lock up the guns and flares.
If you use a flare gun to defend yourself against an unarmed attacker, off to jail you go.

In other words: laws differ greatly between countries, not just when it comes to having (flare) guns on board but also on when / how you can use them, what is considered self-defense and what is considered 'excessive force'.
(probably not the right legal terms, sorry ..)
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:08   #125
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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HA! That was great!

Btw, a lot of people talked about their flare guns, but it's my understanding that they are a lot less lethal than one might think (or at least I did), and also illegal to have onboard (believe it or not) in many countries. Maybe someone can comment. But perhaps there's some utility in using them as a signaling/alarm device, kinda like Muckle's use of high-powered spreader lights & alarms?
Do a search on Youtube, plenty of videos demonstrating if they would be effective as a weapon. Would they injure someone, yes, would they kill someone, maybe, are they accurate NO, would they hole a boat, probably not.

I sure as hell would not want to shoot a flare into a boat of bad guys and watch it burn out (they only burn 6-8 seconds) doing very little damage to the boat and bad guys. Can you say PISSED OFF BAD GUY.
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:09   #126
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Ahoogha 3 times View Post
Most people overlook one Item that we all carry onboard and is not only legal but is required by the coast guard and will strike fear with any boater. A FLARE GUN! and your pyrotechnic devices. a shotgun with dragons breath, deer slugs, #00 Buck. I would not like to have a speargun pointed in my direction as well. always think about ways and places to store firearms that are secret and safe. Improvise, keep your weapons a secret, and think about what the legal aspects of using deadly force and what charges you may have to face if you use deadly force especially outside the United States. It is always better to be pro-active rather than reactive.
A risky proposition that one, but I'm sure people do it. Depending on the country, not declaring a firearm could risk your freedom and/or boat if caught.
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:11   #127
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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I am not sure about firearms. Someone will always have a bigger weapon. Perhaps the solution is for each cruising boat to carry a small tactical nuclear device. After all if someone used it word would get around!
You have to be careful with tactical nukes, we learned that the hard way with Subrocs. The warhead (hydrogen, no less!) has a nice blast radius but the missile's max. range was only 34 mi. It's great for lobbing into the middle of your enemy's battle group, but you need to position yourself carefully to launch at max. firing distance and then hit flank speed in the opposite direction, hoping that you're just outside of blast radius at detonation.

I felt a lot safer when we switched to Tomahawks, and nobody could tell if it was a conventional or nuke warhead just by looking at it. Much longer range, much more accurate and they even have a video feed so you can see the target, just before it goes BOOM!

Much better technology!
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:12   #128
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Yeah, I should have said it that way. There's a certain element of craziness magical thinking in folks insisting we'll be safe when we hand in our weapons. And apologies Muckle, I wasn't really endorsing the Molotov cocktail idea. But as to your rantish notion of incredibly brave sailors around the world ... all that bravado goes away after dark in a strange anchorage.
Pleas enlighten us,what happens in these "strange and dark anchorages"?
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:31   #129
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Peace through superior firepower.

Yes, sure. Just look at the world we live in today! It'working aye!?
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Old 25-12-2015, 13:47   #130
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Made a cannon out of tin cans with duct tape use lighter fluid as propellant, and a tennis ball (soak the ball first) got about 200 ft vertical shooting straight up in the air.
Merry x-mas
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Old 25-12-2015, 14:01   #131
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Here's one for starters - happens all the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana...pe_allegations
So you're comparing a security news site run by cruisers to Tawana Brawley?

I don't think they'll take too kindly to that.
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Old 25-12-2015, 14:08   #132
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
Really? Have you ever been approached by a suspicious boat at sea? At what point, exactly, would you start "filling their hull full of holes"? I am glad you realise that "gas bombs" are an absolutely absurd idea.
I don't think the local coast guard will take it too kindly when you intentionally foul their prop with your line. They'll just radio in and have another boat and crew come out and arrest you while they clear their prop and write up the charges.

Any sort of resistance or aggression has to be used carefully only against "bad guys", gun owners aren't any more likely to mistake friendlies for enemies. AIS should help sort out the good from bad, but again, a gun is only a tool and if you don't have it when you need it, you may not be around to need one the 2nd time.
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Old 25-12-2015, 14:13   #133
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

What a great way to spoil an informational thread.

Merry Christmas.
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Old 25-12-2015, 15:04   #134
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Do not bring a weapon (firearm) onboard unless you are well trained and willing to exercise some common sense. An AR-15 is a bad choice because it is very difficult to aim at anything at sea and it is only a .22 caliber bullet (.223 or 5.56mm). If you want a better chance of survival if you are indeed threatened then a 12 gauge shotgun is a better choice; mixture of buckshot and slugs, the former as antipersonnel and the latter as anti-vessel. Double-00 buckshot is .30 caliber and lethal at close range. Accurate aiming not required. A pistol is a defensive weapon, so good at close range when the situation is known. Also, training is needed is treating ballistic injuries.

Americans: You have a constitutional right to be armed, but only in US territory/waters. Keep that in mind.

Any thought of throwing a Molotov cocktail is ill-advised. The container will probably just bounce of the target (unless metal, and maybe even then) and either piss your adversaries off (or make them laugh so hard they leave you alone). A flare-gun? Really?

Curious about the self-defense measures advocated by some, including Dyneema prop immobilizers Would take some time to deploy, wouldn't it. Can you deploy rapidly in a stressful situation? How do you know it isn't non-uniformed authorities approaching your vessel as some say could happen? If it doesn't work, then what? Tethering a hostile boat to mine doesn't sound too appealing. I presume you'd be exposed to fire while trying to cut away Dyneema lines (or did I not completely understand the concept?)

It's a difficult topic and one has to make a decision based on the threat assessment and your capabilities. But, I would want to have the option of using a firearm if necessary. My wife is also trained and has no reservations about putting two center-mass. If a person doesn't want to die acquiring "stuff" that doesn't belong to him, then he should not put himself in that position to begin with. And how do you know it is just "stuff" that they want?

Lastly, America is not perfect, it has its faults. If our political leadership uses technology (such as drones) it is to limit military casualties, not only US but coalition forces. That is their duty. That civilians are sometimes killed as well as militants, then perhaps those militants should not place military targets insides schools and hospitals. Where is the outrage against that practice?

Merry Christmas.
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Old 25-12-2015, 15:29   #135
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

In some cases would it be better to remain further offshore to reduce being boarded while traveling between areas of concern? I am curious of some the tactics to reduce risk in those areas of concern.
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