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Old 25-12-2015, 09:32   #46
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

Why not keep a couple of flare guns handy?
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:33   #47
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Well, this thread won't last long.

But I would like to point out, it was a self described anti-gun person who brought up molatovs and potato guns.

Also, the no-gun sailors descriptions of the mindset of those who carry arms aboard are far from accurate. eg. .. caressing, looking at the world over the sights, etc
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:33   #48
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by timbenner View Post
Look at the Bahamas. The only Country in the Carribean that welcomes guns on board and guess what - NO BOAT CRIME!! Check it out for yourself - no-one robbing occupied boats!!
Small correction. There is boat crime in the Bahamas but it is limited to the large centers such as Nassau. But they aren't robbers, more like sneak thieves that sneak aboard while you're asleep and take money and jewelry (if you're dumb enough to cruise with jewelry). Once you get to the Family Islands you can leave your boat unlocked with nobody aboard.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:37   #49
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
Can we talk about Molotov Cocktails on this thread? Anyone ever experiment with them? I would think that gasoline is to volatile and could blow up in your hand? In an emergency, if I needed one, how would I proceed? I have ideas about making a sort of potato cannon that could launch beer bottles using propane and possibly ignite the molotov in the process. Anyone care to experiment and post results? If you started launching exploding bottles toward an approaching lancha from what appeared to be a large black bazooka would they not think twice about trying to board you? I am not trying to start a gun thread. I am anti gun. This could be a legal weapon made from abs or pvc plastic that could be kept in a locker ready to snap together. I have actually been thinking about this for years and decided to bring it up here (and if this takes fruit, this post is my witness that it was me that conceived of it). If the forum moderators will allow this discussion I would like to see it moved to its own thread. For the experiments we need to think about safety, I do not want it to weigh on me if anybody gets hurt trying this. Some ideas to explore: bottle nose forward or backward. Types of bottles (beer, wine, different brands of beer using different diameter bottles, type of plastic, grade of pipe (sch.40 etc.), Ignition source (bbq lighter, spark plug, lighter flint). Experiments should begin by only firing bottles but I am interested in exploding bottles as well. I don't want anyone to get hurt so be very careful!!! I also do not want to hurt anyone but we should have some deterrent worked out, Right?
I've built a few "grenade launchers" in the past and I would strongly discourage you from using beer bottles. They'll most likely shatter from the launch and just spew flaming gas all over your own deck.

I had a great deal of fun and luck with flaming tennis balls, soaked in gas or lighter fluid. As a kid, I used cherry bombs for a propellant, but as an adult I shifted to an "air cannon" design. You can find specific assembly instructions on the net, it's just a few PVC parts and a lantern igniter.

An air cannon is as loud as a cannon, but shoots no projectile. One time 2 SDPD cops found us discharging one in an alley and they approached with guns drawn. Once they checked our IDs and discovered it didn't shoot anything, they informed us there was no law against using it before 10 pm. They started shooting it and got a bigger kick out of it than we did, so we gave it to them, they loved it! A few years later, they amended the laws to specifically outlaw potato guns and air cannons as well.

Honestly, I found the whole thing with flaming projectiles to be very hazardous and I wouldn't recommend them on shore, much less a moving sailboat. One slip, one time mistaking your right hand for your left (you'd be amazed how many people get totally confused under pressure) and you could lose one or both hands, making it very, very difficult to scratch your nose with two hooks.

I'd recommend a flare gun and plenty of flares. They burn pretty hot and are much easier to launch.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:41   #50
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
In the past, I've agreed with many of your posts, you seem very logical and well informed. However, on this particular topic, I guess we're just going to disagree. I would like to examine some of our differences in viewpoint.

I'd like to know what exactly you plan to do if you ever get boarded by pirates?

What if they decide they don't want any witnesses? Just accept your fate as a victim of senseless violence?
Why thank you. Well, ok, since you ask, I am not completely defenceless, nor have I failed to think about it.

There are multiple layers of defence:

1. As you can see from these photos, I ostentatiously take photos of any vessel which is manuevering to intercept, or is close in a slightly odd fashion. This shows them that I have taken note, and if boarded, I would simply inform them that photos of their vessel have already been sent to friends and authorities etc. Which they may have been…

2. I carry several hundred meters of 3 and 4mm dyneema line aboard, capable of being trailed behind the boat and also launched out the sides in 30 meter lengths (wrapped around weighted cork balls) with a "wild sling". These are effective prop tanglers. Floating, and stronger than steel.

3 .I have a 7500 volt electric fence (agricultural), which I can rapidly mount on standoffs around the whole vessel, 2 rails. Believe me, touch that, and you won't try to touch it again. Nonlethal though, just an agricultural fence. I use that if anchored in certain spots or traversing certain areas. Not that night in Borneo, as it happened, though.

4. I have battery driven all weather PIRs and a VERY loud alarm which is located up the mast, and activates powerful spreader lights at the same time. Again, I use these only if I feel the need, which is not often.

5. I have what you might call an "area denial tool" aboard, which is basically pepper spray/cs, which is essentially useless above decks, but is very effective indeed in an enclosed space. I also have vapour masks and goggles for crew.

6. As a last resort there are more basic defenses of the hand to hand, and also of the standoff kind, dotted about the place. But I consider this an outside and remote eventuality.

7. Finally and most importantly, I have an open mind and show the world a calm and friendly face. I have found that to be the best defence of all, in uncertain situations.

I do not carry firearms. I am not "anti gun" in the sense that some may think, nor a "wussy". Actually I am a pretty reasonable shot with a pistol, both auto and revolver (preference for an auto .40 if curious), and not a bad one with a repeating longarm or shotgun. Better still with a scoped rifle. However after long consideration I think they are far more trouble than they are worth, and more likely to lead to pointless deadly confrontation than to avoid it, as the fantasies of "shooting engine blocks" or using "molotov cocktails" which inevitably pop up on these threads show so very clearly.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:42   #51
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
In the old days, reports were based on facts ...

Which boat? Dunno
What guns? Dunno
Where? Dunno, I just heard some talk about it

The I would not let this stop me sailing to Trinidad made me laugh - if you want to be cruising but might avoid any country where you might get robbed, burgled or whatever crime, you can' t go anywhere. Can't stay home either, cos crimes happen there too ...
Why do you doubt the veracity of the report? Why would someone make up such a story?

I'm glad you feel comfortable being a victim anywhere in the world. As you point out, crime happens anywhere and everywhere. Lacking fear isn't really much of a deterrent, but being armed might be.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:45   #52
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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I'm not a huge fan of sharia law, but that is just another personal opinion

But I get the feeling you're in the "either you agree with me or you're a complete idiot" camp, and as I already posted: people should do what is best for them - and allow others to do the same. Agreeing to disagree is fine, we don't all have to feel and act the same way.
But... when you get into trouble you're gonna call someone with a gun.. also, they saved ya from speaking german
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:46   #53
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
Yet another reason to sail fully armed. Also I'm thinking some pre made ready to go Molotov Cocktails might be handy as well.
Congrats...I think you are the first person to take a normal, informative thread and turn it into a gun thread by the 5th post...good job!
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:48   #54
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

I volunteer to provide the bottles if you pay the postage.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:48   #55
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Why do you doubt the veracity of the report? Why would someone make up such a story?
I did not say he made it up, he's simply repeating a story that's being told.
Could be accurate, could be a Chinese whisper.

My point simply was (is): there are NO facts in that story.
Reports are based on facts, this is not a report but a story that could be completely accurate, or based on some truths or maybe nothing at all. No way to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I'm glad you feel comfortable being a victim anywhere in the world.
Now you're just being silly
And as for where I am right now: did you even read what I posted about the laws here?
Like them or not, they are what they are, and I would like to avoid a life sentence.

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But... when you get into trouble you're gonna call someone with a gun.. also, they saved ya from speaking german
What does WW2 have to do with cruising?
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:49   #56
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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That link wants me to sign into Facebook to read the article........really?
Cause it ain't gonna happen that way.
You just ain't whistling Dixie - exactly why I won't have anything to do with F/B !
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:52   #57
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

"...might have..." Never overestimate your own badness.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:54   #58
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
I dont think the wussies win at all, the rest of us just stop trying to reason with them.
Indeed.
Sad state of affairs. I personally wouldn't take a chance with gas bombs. I'd rather use a normal flare gun or two than that.
I'll be inclined to fill their hull full of holes and unass the area asap.
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:55   #59
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Not wanting this to turn into a gun thread but there are reports that the assault rifle (and shotgun) they are using was taken from another cruiser they robbed earlier.
Thankful no one was hurt.

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With all due respect, Chicken Little reported the sky was falling
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Old 25-12-2015, 09:56   #60
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Re: Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
2. I carry several hundred meters of 3 and 4mm dyneema line aboard, capable of being trailed behind the boat and also launched out the sides in 30 meter lengths (wrapped around weighted cork balls) with a "wild sling". These are effective prop tanglers. Floating, and stronger than steel.
This one I like best of all, I'll be remembering this.
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