Vessel boarded and robbed between Trinidad and Grenada

[Lizzy Belle]

As far as guns go ...

First of all, Americans are probably more used to guns cos of your laws.
For someone like me, living in the Netherlands where there's strict gun control, it's hard to understand how people can be so willing to kill other human beings to protect "stuff".

I'm not judging, just stating a fact.

When it comes to bringing guns with you when you're cruising, I think it's pretty simple.

If you want to bring guns, and you are willing and able to use them to kill whomever you feel you have to to protect your stuff, then do so.
If you think you may not be able to actually pull the trigger on someone, don't bring a gun. When you're pointing it at someone who IS willing to use it, and you are not ...
Probably won't end well for you.

I don't understand why people feel the need to ridicule others who have a different point of view.
It's a personal choice, and everybody should just do what they feel is best for them (and legal, methinks).

On a personal note: I'm fine with our gun control laws. Very few shootings here, and the ones that do happen are usually criminals settling a score. I'm good with that; let them kill each other, saves us a lot of time and money trying to get them before a judge and maybe into jail for a couple of years, after which they continue with business as usual anyway.

A law I think is idiotic is our limited right to self defense: if some guy comes into my boat at night cos a single gal on a boat, well, that's just too easy ... (and yes, did this actually happen to me a couple of years ago) I can legally defend myself, but I can NOT use "excessive force".
Meaning that anything more than the bare minimal of force to defend myself, and I go to jail.
So if I shoot an unarmed wannabe-rapist, who came into my boat, I go to jail for murder ...

Having said all that: I personally could probably only shoot another human being if my most basic survival instinct kicked in. So for me, waving a gun around would not be the best possible move. Chances are I'd end up getting shot with my own gun ...

I also wouldn't want to kill to protect "stuff". My boat and whatever is on it, it can be replaced.
A life, not so much.
For me, it's hard to understand people are killing each other over "stuff".
Most often, they're thiefs, robbers and criminals, but more and more 'regular folk' seem to feel their stuff is more important than a life. I don't understand that and will never agree with stuff being worth more than anyone's life - but again, that's just me.

I have no problem with people who do take guns with them on the boat.
I only have a problem with people who feel the need to convince me I'm an idiot for not seeing things their way

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Yeah, I should have said it that way. There's a certain element of craziness magical thinking in folks insisting we'll be safe when we hand in our weapons. And apologies Muckle, I wasn't really endorsing the Molotov cocktail idea. But as to your rantish notion of incredibly brave sailors around the world ... all that bravado goes away after dark in a strange anchorage.

Hey there Blue Crab… thought I'd upload this little Xmas video for you (and others)… I was anchored alone, far up a river in Indonesian Borneo. And no, no fear. Certainly was interesting though…

Merry Xmas

[monte]

Borneo? Is t that where Peter Tangvelds wife was shot and killed by pirates?
Interesting story that one. Peter was on deck with his son when some armed fishermen came alongside, asking for booze and cigs. He tried to keep things cool and pacify them and told his wife to stay below. She ignored his order and came through the foreward hatch holding a rifle to defend her home and family. They shot her and she fell into the sea never to be heard of again. The Pirates left Peter and his son to sail on.
Not that that has a lot to do with is thread, but heading up a river in Borneo is on my bucketlist, it sounds pretty amazing.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by monte

Borneo? Is t that where Peter Tangvelds wife was shot and killed by pirates?
Interesting story that one. Peter was on deck with his son when some armed fishermen came alongside, asking for booze and cigs. He tried to keep things cool and pacify them and told his wife to stay below. She ignored his order and came through the foreward hatch holding a rifle to defend her home and family. They shot her and she fell into the sea never to be heard of again. The Pirates left Peter and his son to sail on.
Not that that has a lot to do with is thread, but heading up a river in Borneo is on my bucketlist, it sounds pretty amazing.

That story and the Peter Blake tragedy are two of the more important incidents which make it clear that keeping a firearm aboard does not make you safer. In either case had a firearm not been presented the presenter of that arm would not have been killed.

In any case, sailing up one or more rivers in Borneo SHOULD be on your bucket list! Totally wonderful experience… if they could only stop burning the place down. But there are still substantial areas of virgin jungle left… for how long? I don't know. But I intend to head back there soon, again.

[Blue Crab]

Hey there Blue Crab… thought I'd upload this little Xmas video for you (and others)… I was anchored alone, far up a river in Indonesian Borneo. And no, no fear. Certainly was interesting though…

I don't do videos as I'm paying by the byte out of reach of free bandwidth. But I've got a coupla of "up the lazy river" stories. Scary too. Mostly the Mekong but lesser streams as well, on foot, back in the daze when I could see my abs and had more hair.

However, my favorite story along these lines started innocently enough on the Shark River in the Everglades ... as I think of this I recall an even scarier time up in the good ole boys bayou area of Loosiana. These are stories of daring-do tho ... maybe not appropriate on this holiest of holy days: Festivus.

Now, my nightmares run to pythons coming up the anchor rode.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Hey there Blue Crab… thought I'd upload this little Xmas video for you (and others)… I was anchored alone, far up a river in Indonesian Borneo. And no, no fear. Certainly was interesting though…

I don't do videosasI'mpaying by the byte out of reach of free bandwidth. But I've got a coupla of "up the lazy river" stories. Scary too. Mostly the Mekong but lesser streams as well, on foot, back in the daze when I could see my abs and had more hair.

However, my favorite story along these lines started innocently enough on the Shark River in the Everglades ... as I think of this I recall an even scarier time up in the good ole boys bayou area of Loosiana. These are stories of derring-do tho ... maybe not appropriate on this holiest of holy days: Festivus.

Now, my nightmares run to pythons coming up the anchor rode.

Understood. Though to be fair the video was reduced to 1.4 MB

[sailing_gal]

I figure a flare gun is an effective weapon- it can certainly sink a boat (not to mention killing a person)and doesn't require such good aim to do so. I have thought that a boat with several flare guns aboard, loaded and at the ready would be good persuasion to help keep pirates at bay.

I am not a gun person, but it seems like this is a more benign (and legal everywhere) approach.

[Saleen411]

Once again I am ANTI GUN! But I don't believe that it is good to perpetuate the notion that we cruisers are never armed either.

My friend who just got back from his 8 year circumnavigation had an incident. His buddy boat was being approached by what was thought to be bad guys. After being called to help, my friend turned his boat around to give assistance. Upon approaching his buddy boat, the alleged bad guys departed.

The speculation was that the alleged bad guys assumed my friend's yacht had arms aboard.

FWIW

Just passing the story. I've heard that at least SOME Americans are assumed to be armed.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by monte

I thought I was the only one with the ingenious plan to throw my extending magnet stick at attacking pirates, disabling their outboard magneto and causing them to shake their fists in frustration as I sail off into the yonder. I guess great minds think alike!

I think a directional electro magnetic pulse gun would be cool. Maybe once I get my flux capacitor working,,,


Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[timbenner]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

As far as guns go ...

First of all, Americans are probably more used to guns cos of your laws.
For someone like me, living in the Netherlands where there's strict gun control, it's hard to understand how people can be so willing to kill other human beings to protect "stuff".

I'm not judging, just stating a fact.

When it comes to bringing guns with you when you're cruising, I think it's pretty simple.

If you want to bring guns, and you are willing and able to use them to kill whomever you feel you have to to protect your stuff, then do so.
If you think you may not be able to actually pull the trigger on someone, don't bring a gun. When you're pointing it at someone who IS willing to use it, and you are not ...
Probably won't end well for you.

I don't understand why people feel the need to ridicule others who have a different point of view.
It's a personal choice, and everybody should just do what they feel is best for them (and legal, methinks).

On a personal note: I'm fine with our gun control laws. Very few shootings here, and the ones that do happen are usually criminals settling a score. I'm good with that; let them kill each other, saves us a lot of time and money trying to get them before a judge and maybe into jail for a couple of years, after which they continue with business as usual anyway.

A law I think is idiotic is our limited right to self defense: if some guy comes into my boat at night cos a single gal on a boat, well, that's just too easy ... (and yes, did this actually happen to me a couple of years ago) I can legally defend myself, but I can NOT use "excessive force".
Meaning that anything more than the bare minimal of force to defend myself, and I go to jail.
So if I shoot an unarmed wannabe-rapist, who came into my boat, I go to jail for murder ...

Having said all that: I personally could probably only shoot another human being if my most basic survival instinct kicked in. So for me, waving a gun around would not be the best possible move. Chances are I'd end up getting shot with my own gun ...

I also wouldn't want to kill to protect "stuff". My boat and whatever is on it, it can be replaced.
A life, not so much.
For me, it's hard to understand people are killing each other over "stuff".
Most often, they're thiefs, robbers and criminals, but more and more 'regular folk' seem to feel their stuff is more important than a life. I don't understand that and will never agree with stuff being worth more than anyone's life - but again, that's just me.

I have no problem with people who do take guns with them on the boat.
I only have a problem with people who feel the need to convince me I'm an idiot for not seeing things their way

I think some civilizations cut your hand and/or hands off for stealing! Why - After all, it's just stuff? Why - to take your incentive away for stealing stuff!! It's called punishment which leads to discipline which leads to good behavior.

Same reason you discipline your dog for crapping in your house or boat. So that your dog will stop that and go outside. Discipline - it's actually an old concept, that's been lost!

It's an old concept that's been lost to Politically Correct - phyco-bable. However, it works!!

Look at the Bahamas. The only Country in the Carribean that welcomes guns on board and guess what - NO BOAT CRIME!! Check it out for yourself - no-one robbing occupied boats!!

[boeing1]

if push came to shove, shooting your flare gun into their boat

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

My friend who just got back from his 8 year circumnavigation had an incident. His buddy boat was being approached by what was thought to be bad guys. After being called to help, my friend turned his boat around to give assistance. Upon approaching his buddy boat, the alleged bad guys departed.

The speculation was that the alleged bad guys assumed my friend's yacht had arms aboard.

FWIW

Just passing the story. I've heard that at least SOME Americans are assumed to be armed.

Well… I've been approached by a great many vessels. Some, such as the one pictured, repeatedly turned to intercept (this one in the Java Sea), and came within cocktail tossing distance (maybe 20 feet). But they were merely curious, or perhaps, as often, fishermen seeking to have the "bad luck spirits" jump onto my vessel, as they were not having much luck, and maybe catch some of my (obvious to them it would seem) "good luck spirits". This is a common practise throughout Asia. Look at them closely. Seem pretty threatening, eh? Should I have shot them? Presented arms? Thrown a fuel bomb?

They were just fishermen.

Heck, I've had a friend approached by Peruvian drift netters in a small outboard boat (mothership somewhere over the horizon) 500 miles West of the Galapagos… he tossed them a couple of cans of beer. They were very pleased.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by timbenner

I think some civilizations cut your hand and/or hands off for stealing! Why - After all, it's just stuff? Why - to take your incentive away for stealing stuff!! It's called punishment which leads to discipline which leads to good behavior

I'm not a huge fan of sharia law, but that is just another personal opinion

But I get the feeling you're in the "either you agree with me or you're a complete idiot" camp, and as I already posted: people should do what is best for them - and allow others to do the same. Agreeing to disagree is fine, we don't all have to feel and act the same way.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

You guys do love to cast yourself in the starring role of a silly action movie, don't you?

Merry Xmas!

In the past, I've agreed with many of your posts, you seem very logical and well informed. However, on this particular topic, I guess we're just going to disagree. I would like to examine some of our differences in viewpoint.

I'd like to know what exactly you plan to do if you ever get boarded by pirates?

What if they decide they don't want any witnesses? Just accept your fate as a victim of senseless violence?

[Muckle Flugga]

Same boat again, bows on, after which I was too busy manuevering to take more photos.