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Old 12-07-2016, 18:11   #1
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Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Yes, boys and girls, once again the unbridled stupidity of our current US government and trade unions will try to prevent the historic passage of an authentic Viking Longship, Draken Harald Hafargre, who has sailed from Norway to Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, Newfoundland and, is now, in the Great Lakes. The 115 foot replica of a Viking warship has been told that it requires a Great Lakes Coast Pilot at the cost of $400.per hour to continue its journey throughout the Great Lakes. It is estimated that the total cost of continuing its passage in conjunction with the Great Lakes Tall Ships will cost $400,000. US-- a figure it's captain, Bjorn Ahlander, says they cannot afford. How could it be possible that a ship that has sailed roughly 3,000 miles in the most trying conditions under its captain and crew cannot safely complete its passage through the Great Lakes without a union coast pilot? Is it possible that the Europeans and Canadians are more enlightened about these things than the powers to be in the US? Here's an update:Draken Harald Hårfagre is in jeopardy of leaving the Tall Ships Challenge 2016 and the Great Lakes – Draken Harald Hårfagre
Let's hope this can be resolved and allow this unique historic adventure to reach it's fruition. Captain Rognvald, stunned and in disbelief.
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Old 12-07-2016, 18:27   #2
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Remeasure her! I suspect that she is really only 34 meters (110.5 ft).
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Old 12-07-2016, 18:35   #3
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

I believe its not so much the length issue, but on her registration she is listed as a cargo vessel. Hopefully someone in the bureaucracy will have a blinding flash of the obvious and issue a waiver.
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:02   #4
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
Remeasure her! I suspect that she is really only 34 meters (110.5 ft).
Several sources list the vessel at 115 ft. Here's one source along with Wikipedia. grapevine.is/mag/mag-featured/2016/05/11/draken-harald-harfagre/ The BBC reports that it is 114 ft. Largest replica Viking longship ever built visits Isle of Man - BBC News
BBC However, the length difference of a few feet is irrelevant to the discussion.
Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:05   #5
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Oh come on... She passed nearby us just a few weeks ago. Incredible journey. Clearly does not require a Coast Pilot. Ridiculous.

They were planning to sail all the way up to Superior and haul out somewhere in the upper lakes for the winter. If they now have to leave the Great Lake due to this stupidity, they'll have to move pretty fast to get somewhere safe for hurricane and winter season.

Ridiculous
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:12   #6
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Welcome to the Lamd of the Free.
Not.
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Old 12-07-2016, 19:22   #7
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

As a practical matter, do you think there is a single Great Lakes pilot with the knowledge and expertise to execute the legal responsibilities when embarked on a Viking longship? The ship's master is eminently more qualified, lacking only in local knowledge. The host should offer a person with local knowledge to advise the master without charge.

Perhaps one of the pilots will offer his services free of charge. Nah, he'd be considered a scab. Can't have that.
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Old 12-07-2016, 20:15   #8
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

If anybody is at fault, it the captain and the backers of the voyage for not researching possible legal hurdles that might need to be overcome. Had they addressed this issue before the voyage began, maybe they could have received special dispensation in advance. It ain't rocket science.

"What, you mean I need a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle in the United States?"

BTW- the statement below is complete bullsh*t, as the regulations governing commercial shipping on the Great Lakes have certainly been in place for many years and likely predate the "current US government" by decades:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Yes, boys and girls, once again the unbridled stupidity of our current US government and trade unions will try to prevent the historic passage of an authentic Viking Longship, Draken Harald Hafargre, who has sailed from Norway to Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, Newfoundland and, is now, in the Great Lakes.
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Old 12-07-2016, 20:24   #9
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Don't most of those boats end up bankrupt or sunk?
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Old 12-07-2016, 23:43   #10
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Could they sneak up the Canadian side?
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:45   #11
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

They could indulge in a bit of portage.

Edit... I was assuming the compulsory pilotage was for the Seaway.... but its for the lakes themselves... that is crazy....
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Old 13-07-2016, 00:49   #12
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Yes, boys and girls, once again the unbridled stupidity of our current US government and trade unions will try to prevent the historic passage of an authentic Viking Longship, Draken Harald Hafargre, who has sailed from Norway to Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, Newfoundland and, is now, in the Great Lakes. The 115 foot replica of a Viking warship has been told that it requires a Great Lakes Coast Pilot at the cost of $400.per hour to continue its journey throughout the Great Lakes. It is estimated that the total cost of continuing its passage in conjunction with the Great Lakes Tall Ships will cost $400,000. US-- a figure it's captain, Bjorn Ahlander, says they cannot afford. How could it be possible that a ship that has sailed roughly 3,000 miles in the most trying conditions under its captain and crew cannot safely complete its passage through the Great Lakes without a union coast pilot? Is it possible that the Europeans and Canadians are more enlightened about these things than the powers to be in the US? Here's an update:Draken Harald Hårfagre is in jeopardy of leaving the Tall Ships Challenge 2016 and the Great Lakes – Draken Harald Hårfagre
Let's hope this can be resolved and allow this unique historic adventure to reach it's fruition. Captain Rognvald, stunned and in disbelief.
Quote:
(I)nformation from the Great Lakes Pilotage Authorities that a ship of the size and variety of Draken Harald Hårfagre would be excepted the requirement of pilotage. “…Foreign ships of less than 35 meters in overall length are not subject to compulsory pilotage in the Great Lakes Region”
Seriously, 35 meters equals 114.829 feet. That is 2 inches less then the 115 feet stated in the above reference.

I mean - everyone knows how sailors tend to exaggerate the length of things.

As an example, my boat length varies from 34 feet for slip fees to 37 feet for a live aboard boat. It's all about how the measurement is done.

So again I suggest that a remeasure is the best solution to this non-problem.
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Old 13-07-2016, 05:24   #13
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Mixed feelings about this. Part of me agrees with fstbttms. This is something that could very easily have been (and SHOULD have been!) researched ahead of time. It's like someone sailing away from the United States, arriving in Panama, and saying "What do you mean I have to have a passport with me!?! What are you talking about, 'ships papers', this is my boat!"

On the other hand, it does seem like a bit of silly bureaucratic nonsense. Seems like an exception should be obvious and easily acquired.

Oh yeah. The thing about, "our current US government?" Stretching it a bit to refer to a situation that has existed for more than a hundred years as "current."
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Old 13-07-2016, 05:42   #14
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
If anybody is at fault, it the captain and the backers of the voyage for not researching possible legal hurdles that might need to be overcome. Had they addressed this issue before the voyage began, maybe they could have received special dispensation in advance. It ain't rocket science.

"What, you mean I need a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle in the United States?"

BTW- the statement below is complete bullsh*t, as the regulations governing commercial shipping on the Great Lakes have certainly been in place for many years and likely predate the "current US government" by decades:
I'll bet you are committing felonies and aren't aware of all of them:

L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day - WSJ

It is very possible that someone could have overlooked that a pilot would be required for the entire Great Lakes voyage.
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Old 13-07-2016, 05:48   #15
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

According to the articles that I've read on this, It appears they DID do the research and were given and exemption, only to arrive and then be told the opposite! gotta love beaurocrats!

This strange stuff happens all the time. I know someone who was forced to pay duty on a canadian built sailboat upon entering the US despite the NAFTA zone specifically stating that goods built in either Canada or the US can be imported tarrif free!
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