Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

[buzzstar]

There are many ways to destroy a country. One of the most subtle and effective is building a hide bound bureaucracy. This is the most recent route of my country. Sad. Could the long ship please include a few dozen berserkers within its cargo? They might save us from the bureaucrats. Sorry Norsemen and women for the spelling errors that the CF spell checker feels I've made.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Great looking boat. It seems a fair guess that the whole think is a matter of a few inches.

Would the dragon miss two inches chainsawed off each of its nose and tail during a re-measurement on arrival, and dowelled and glued back on departure?

Who wouldn't give up the extra two inches to save 400large while visiting the US, and make a live TV publicity issue of the process of bringing the vessel into length compliance.

(Also, would a US Trumpist want to cut visitors down by two inches? Guess so).

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Actually that is not what NAFTA says. NAFTA allows preferential duty for goods made and sold in the NAFTA zone, not duty free. I have imported goods made in Mexico and paid duty, just much less than the same thing made elsewhere.

Check https://www.usitc.gov/ for duties on everything from apples to zebras including duty rates based on the country of origin, dumping duties, countries with GSP, etc.

OK that's messed up! its FREE TRADE! I'm about to import a boat into canada from the US, built in the US. how much duty do I have to pay...0. I still have to pay sale tax but ZERO duty! you Americans are messed up!

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Gaia

How is the length measured? If from the rudder post (as is done in Canada) then she might be less then from the stern if in fact the rudder is not hung from the stern.

Where did you get that information? length in Canada LOA is measured from the extreme ends of the ship. from the tip of the bow sprit to the tip of the davits aft! even the documentation process uses the aft most edge of the deck to the front more point of the bow. never is it measured to the rudder post!

[boatpoker]

I am a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Surveyor. My surveys have been accepted for registry obviously in Canada but also in Costa Rica. BVI, UK, Honduras, Belize, Venezuela, Columbia, Bahamas and a few other countries that escape me at the moment.

There is a lot of leeway in Tonnage Measurements and if measurement is truly an issue I'd be happy to give it a try for a re-measurement (no charge) when she is on Lake Ontario.

Let me know if I can help.... as long as it is before mid-August when I head out for the Bahamas.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Where did you get that information? length in Canada LOA is measured from the extreme ends of the ship. from the tip of the bow sprit to the tip of the davits aft! even the documentation process uses the aft most edge of the deck to the front more point of the bow. never is it measured to the rudder post!

You sir are incorrect. As a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Measurer I can tell you that Gaia has it right. Part 3 of the TC Tonnage Measurement Rule states that the registered length shall be measured from the inner part of the stem to the forward edge of the rudder stock.

[knockabout]

watched a viking ship row past mackay qld on its the way to Hobart/not sure if thit had a vts reef pilot on board/must be bloody dangerous great lakes

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You sir are incorrect. As a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Measurer I can tell you that Gaia has it right. Part 3 of the TC Tonnage Measurement Rule states that the registered length shall be measured from the inner part of the stem to the forward edge of the rudder stock.

I hate to tell you how to do your job, but the is nothing in the tonnage measurement form about the rudder post as the aft measurement point. specifically it states:

Tonnage measurement length: The length of the vessel measured horizontally (parallel to the designed waterline) from the fore side of the forward most fixed structure to the aft side of the aftermost fixed permenent structure excluding appendeges that do not contribute to the volume of the vessel. see figures 1(a) and 1(b) see overleaf (as read directly from the measurement form)

nothing there about the rudder but it does indicate that the aft most part of the vessel includes the stern of the vessel

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This is the answer, if you have ever been in the Military or Government, you know everything is waiverable-----

I had the CBP in Key West lock up the Cayman Islands Mosquito control aircraft a few years back when I flew it back for maintenance, and they stood firm -----it was going to sit on the ramp and rot -----
Queen of England displayed interest, and Bam they couldn't turn loose of that aircraft fast enough.

Seems to me that the quickest, simplest solution is for the Norwegian ambassador in Washington to awake from his nap and call the White house and complain. At this point in his term President Obama would probably be delighted to have somebody he could make happy at such small cost.
Things like this are what ambassadors are for.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I hate to tell you how to do your job, but the is nothing in the tonnage measurement form about the rudder post as the aft measurement point. specifically it states:

Tonnage measurement length: The length of the vessel measured horizontally (parallel to the designed waterline) from the fore side of the forward most fixed structure to the aft side of the aftermost fixed permenent structure excluding appendeges that do not contribute to the volume of the vessel. see figures 1(a) and 1(b) see overleaf (as read directly from the measurement form)

nothing there about the rudder but it does indicate that the aft most part of the vessel includes the stern of the vessel

You miss the difference between TML (tonnage measurement length) and Register Length. You must read the entire document. The manual for measurement I work from is a 4" binder. Anyone who owns a registered vessel will note the the length shown on their registry is significantly less than TML or LOA. For instance my own boat is 43' LOA but Register Length is only 11.38m ( from stem to rudder post). You can check out my register data on the TC registry database for the vessel DIRT FREE. TML is a factor in tonnage measurements among many others such as Depth of Hull (which is not draught), Simpsons Rule #3,deductions for contra, steerage gear etc. but is not the "Registered Length".

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You miss the difference between TML (tonnage measurement length) and Register Length. You must read the entire document. The manual for measurement I work from is a 4" binder. Anyone who owns a registered vessel will note the the length shown on their registry is significantly less than TML or LOA. For instance my own boat is 43' LOA but Register Length is only 11.38m ( from stem to rudder post). You can check out my register data on the TC registry database for the vessel DIRT FREE. TML is a factor in tonnage measurements among many others such as Simpsons Rule #3,deductions for contra, steerage gear etc. but is not the "Registered Length".

Weird TC has some contradictions. on the application for registry form1 they specifically list the length as: "The Length of your vessel is the distance measured from the outside of the forward end(a) to the outside of the aft end (b) of the hull shell..." from Form1 of vessel registration. Again no mention of rudder post so the registered length equals the LOA

mind you I'm not surprised as they also consider the draft of the veseel the distance from the deck edge to the bottom of the keel ( which makes no sense!) and that when you are joint owners in a vessel, you each own 64 shares of the possible total of 64 shares. They're math isn't good on that one!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I hate to tell you how to do your job, but the is nothing in the tonnage measurement form about the rudder post as the aft measurement point. specifically it states:

Tonnage measurement length: The length of the vessel measured horizontally (parallel to the designed waterline) from the fore side of the forward most fixed structure to the aft side of the aftermost fixed permenent structure excluding appendeges that do not contribute to the volume of the vessel. see figures 1(a) and 1(b) see overleaf (as read directly from the measurement form)

nothing there about the rudder but it does indicate that the aft most part of the vessel includes the stern of the vessel

Sorry, I should also point out that you are reading from the "simplified measurement method" which Transport Canada has online and is for vessels up to 15m TML. The method for vessels over 15m is not online and that method is much more complex and is available only to Appointed Measurers.

[skipper53]

Just saw online video of this ship sailing up the Detroit River headed for Bay City. Tall Ships gathering there for viewing this coming weekend.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Weird TC has some contradictions. on the application for registry form1 they specifically list the length as: "The Length of your vessel is the distance measured from the outside of the forward end(a) to the outside of the aft end (b) of the hull shell..." from Form1 of vessel registration. Again no mention of rudder post so the registered length equals the LOA

mind you I'm not surprised as they also consider the draft of the vessel the distance from the deck edge to the bottom of the keel ( which makes no sense!) and that when you are joint owners in a vessel, you each own 64 shares of the possible total of 64 shares. They're math isn't good on that one!!

Actually the math is quite good if you know its origins ... Queen Anne seized all British Harbours which were at the time privately owned by the aristocracy. The government then had to figure a way to charge (tax) for the use of the harbours. One of the most common imports into Britain at the time were "tuns" of port wine (A tun is a specific size of wine cask). The government in their wisdom decided that ships should be charged harbour fees based on how many "tuns" of port wine they could carry hence the deductions for contra (cooking, machinery, steering gear, crew sleeping quarters etc.). Of course "tunnage" became bastardized over the years to "tonnage". Now as to the 64 shares, that too adds up. Ships profits were once divided by so many shares for the ship, so many for the owners, the captain and shares for the crew, the total shares added up to 64.

All quite logical for politicians

[barnakiel]

BEWARE

That Norwegian vessel is only pretending to part take in the Tall Ships. They actually came to America to steal some of your fat women. As if there was not enough wood in Norway. OMG ;-)

Seals, I mean.

b.