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Old 29-03-2011, 11:02   #91
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

...pretty sure here it was not a case of a family renting a boat and going for a sail... there was a "captain" on board to run the charter...
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Old 29-03-2011, 11:05   #92
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Hello all, the San Diego Union Trib (signonsandiego.com) section B has the story. Briefly, the boat was a 22 ft MacGregor. It appears that the swing keel was up and no water ballast had been loaded. It is sad to hear about the Grandfather and Father had died, and others injured.
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Old 29-03-2011, 11:17   #93
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
(quoting CFR 33, Sec 183) I'm sure there was a violation in there some where.
Hey, if you are going to quote a CFR, at least make sure it applies to the situaiton. To do otherwise is just irresponsible.

ß 183.21 Applicability.

top This subpart applies to monohull boats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats.
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Old 29-03-2011, 11:41   #94
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by doug86 View Post
Hey, if you are going to quote a CFR, at least make sure it applies to the situaiton. To do otherwise is just irresponsible.

ß 183.21 Applicability.

top This subpart applies to monohull boats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats.
I know they are not required under 20' BUT obviously they should be for a boat that light. This CFR was just a reference to load limits, which is also under 20'.

But here is a quote from the McGregor forum.

Quote:
Thanks - according to Capt. Mike at the Mac site we never did have a plate, but the max load is 6 in case your curious. (mind you I don't know how we would fit them all in!) John
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> Max Capacity Plate on a 82 Mac 22 - SailboatOwners.com

Sailboat Capsizes In San Diego - SailboatOwners.com

So, if the load limit is 6 to 8 then it should specify some where on the boat or it's instructions. Especially with the keel up.
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Old 29-03-2011, 11:59   #95
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Just as a further footnote, I remember seeing a boat on the road for the last few months on a trailer. Trailer-sailer, rig down, and the truck towing it had something on there about how it was sailing for people with disabilities. Not sure if it's the same boat; I never really checked it out that much. But the size is roughly the same, I didn't see a keel on that one on the trailer, and it isn't there anymore. Seems like a little too much coincidence.

Anyway, if that is the case it rules out the concept that it was a rental. No rental shops around here would allow that many folks on the water, and the big rental agency (seaforth) doesn't use those boats I don't think.
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Old 29-03-2011, 12:04   #96
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

thanks for all of this info everyone. it is great to be able to share this information and it is better than the news! My heart goes out to all those involved. it is really really hard not to be really angry at this guy! UGH!
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Old 29-03-2011, 12:10   #97
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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thanks for all of this info everyone. it is great to be able to share this information and it is better than the news! My heart goes out to all those involved. it is really really hard not to be really angry at this guy! UGH!
It's just a good reminder that a news journalist is not an expert (usually) in the field they're covering. Just imagine what happens when they try to cover something more complicated than a sailboat flipping over.
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Old 29-03-2011, 12:28   #98
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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It's just a good reminder that a news journalist is not an expert (usually) in the field they're covering. Just imagine what happens when they try to cover something more complicated than a sailboat flipping over.
FWIW,

The link posted in the first post of this thread now has a much more factual story (with details about the accident) that is worth taking a look at.

It does not appear to have been a rental, and not a charter (at least in the traditional sense).

Apparently it is indeed a Mac 26, that was operated by (or displayed a banner for anyway) "Heart of Sailing" according to the story anyway.
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Old 29-03-2011, 12:55   #99
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

The charity that was operating the sailboat said that a sudden gust of wind caused the capsize... a summary of all is here again:

Gust of Wind Flipped Sailboat: Charity | NBC San Diego
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Old 29-03-2011, 12:56   #100
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
It's just a good reminder that a news journalist is not an expert (usually) in the field they're covering. Just imagine what happens when they try to cover something more complicated than a sailboat flipping over.

I've been a reporter almost all my adult life (there was a brief interregnum as an editor) and I know a little about how these things are handled.

Almost by definition, this type of story will go to a newb. Accidents, cars crashes, house fires ... all that stuff gets handled by general assignment reporters. That is to say, people, usually junior, who don't have one of the jobs the paper thinks are important. Like politics. Or business. Or movies.

Those (arguably) more complicated jobs have people who specialize in those areas. Experts, if you will.

But every day general assignment reporters are thrown in -- completely cold -- to situations that are always confusing, trying to nail down facts when often the experts (in this case the rescue people) still don't know what happened.

Easy? You try it.

Unless he or she happens to be on the scene when something happens, the reporter tries to get a picture by asking other people what they saw and what they know. This often leads to contradictions and error, at least in the first hours.

The other possibility, BTW, is to wait until the responsible authorities have sorted it all out and then print a press release. I don't think we'd like that very much either.

But as soon as an event like the San Diego tragedy occurs, some people on forums like these start knocking the media, forgetting that all they would have would be rumors without some poor underpaid schmo trying to gather a few facts and put them in the paper under enormous time pressure.

It gets old.

Rant almost over. I promise.

The other thing to remember is that -- from the point of view of most of the rest of the world -- the important thing is not the type of boat, or whether it had water ballast, or if it was equipped with a daggerboard.

The important thing was that two people died in a sailing accident. Strikes me that the very first story I saw got that exactly right.

OK, that's it. I feel better now.

Connemara
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Old 29-03-2011, 13:57   #101
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20man View Post
The charity that was operating the sailboat said that a sudden gust of wind caused the capsize... a summary of all is here again:

Gust of Wind Flipped Sailboat: Charity | NBC San Diego
yeah, blame the weather. Gosh, how was the captain of a sailboat to know the winds would push the boat over?

PS: clearly, there was no mainsail (see photos on this thread), so it was jib only. Weather data for SD Yacht Club area on Sunday afternoon shows winds speeds around 12mph with gusts ~ 15-20mph Weather Station History : Weather Underground
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Old 29-03-2011, 17:08   #102
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

I read that news release and indeed there is a lot of C.Y.A. in it. Which is normal as I am sure that the charity and boat owner/operator is going to be sued up one side and down the other. Most probably he/they are severely worried about criminal neglect or manslaughter charges if the USCG/Local Law Officers find negligence on the part of the captain/operator.
- - There is a hint that the boat and owner were visiting from another part of the USA and it is possible he was unfamiliar with the local area and how to deal with wind shifts, etc. IMHO, 10 people on a round bottom 26ft sailboat, especially handicapped or language challenged people is pushing it well beyond the boundaries of safe and prudent.
- - But anyway, a tragic event which only has relevance to "cruising" boats in so much as we need to constantly battle complacency and the "oh, well, never had a problem with this "activity" before . . ." type of mindset. No matter how "good" a sailor you think you are, Mother Nature can slam her fist down on you so you had better have been prepared to try to survive it.
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Old 29-03-2011, 17:14   #103
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

The "local conditions" in San Diego Harbor that day were almost non existent tides, steady winds at 10 knots from the NW, and multi mile visibility. It was the kind of stuff that is honestly just slightly boring enough that I wouldn't even take the Walker Bay 8' out for fear of falling asleep on the tiller.
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Old 29-03-2011, 17:24   #104
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

darwin awards comes to mind..............
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Old 29-03-2011, 17:41   #105
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Any of you experts notice the angle of the motor in this shot?
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