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Old 28-03-2011, 19:38   #76
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Here's a picture of the boat before it flipped. Some of our friends were out, saw it, and took a picture because they were so appalled by the trim and loading. This was maybe a couple of hours before the accident; some of the people in the photo are now deceased.

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Old 28-03-2011, 19:53   #77
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Here's a picture of the boat before it flipped. Some of our friends were out, saw it, and took a picture because they were so appalled by the trim and loading. This was maybe a couple of hours before the accident; some of the people in the photo are now deceased.

Your friends should get a copy of the pict to the Harbor Police... they are looking for eyewitnesses...

As to the 'skippers hat' my understanding from the organisation that ran these 'sailing experiences' for adults and children with 'developmental disabilities' gave each participant a chance at being a skipper, and hence the hat...

here is one pict:


again for some reason the pict is not visible, so a link:
link to pict of kid in the hat
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Old 28-03-2011, 22:24   #78
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Rebel heart, an excellent picture, worth a thousand words.

Pop-top up, no main boom, loose back stay, heinously overloaded and out of trim not registered in the state of California...

if, only, but,

Perhaps just putting the board down would have made the difference. I can see it clearly... wave rolls into the cockpit to port, everyone jumps to starboard and over she goes. So sad.
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Old 28-03-2011, 23:20   #79
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Great pic Rebel, I can't imagine anyone not saying anything as it is obviously WAAAY over loaded in my opinion.. Hate to see bad things happen to good people..
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Old 29-03-2011, 00:19   #80
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

I'm still not accustomed to the ignorance of people, having led a sheltered life. I would hope that an organization offering the use of boats to the general public would show better judgment.
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Old 29-03-2011, 05:47   #81
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

from the Heart of Sail website:
Quote:
Our fleet consists of monohull sailboats which have keels to provide greater stability. As opposed to the traditional dinghy or sabot-sized sailboat used in traditional youth sailing instruction, the keel boats are larger with our fleet ranging from 22’ up to 56’.
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Old 29-03-2011, 06:00   #82
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

It looks like most of the people are sitting on the high (starboard) side of the boat - as though the port side has a full ballast but not starboard... perhaps there was a leak or something.

It is very tragic that something like this should happen to such a good-hearted organisation - but if there was a known problem with balance (as suggested by the photo) the Captain should have returned his crew to land and sorted the issue / cancelled / switched boats... but I judge without intending to.

My condolences to the family for their loss.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:15   #83
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Here's a picture of the boat before it flipped. Some of our friends were out, saw it, and took a picture because they were so appalled by the trim and loading. This was maybe a couple of hours before the accident; some of the people in the photo are now deceased.

I'll bet the Coast Guard would be very interested in seeing that photo.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:15   #84
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

I bet the captain and/or owner gets charged with negligent homicide. So, are there California or Coast Guard regulations regarding occupants or capacities on sailboats and how do they apply to cruisers? For my information, any members familiar with their countries rules.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:27   #85
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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I'll bet the Coast Guard would be very interested in seeing that photo.
The guy who took it is a friend of mine; we did our 100 ton captain's class together and he owns a boat yard up in Maine. He was on the news last night, and I sent the photo to the police last night.

Such a stupid accident.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:31   #86
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

That looks like 'george' (from SA you tube link)

This model, unlike the later powersailor boats can NOT be operated without water ballast.

sure looks like it was motoring without the ballast. thus the incident.

looking over the web, everyone seems to think the current model is the same as the one build 20+ years ago (wrong).
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:39   #87
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by MrBillFLL View Post
That looks like 'george' (from SA you tube link)

This model, unlike the later powersailor boats can NOT be operated without water ballast.

sure looks like it was motoring without the ballast. thus the incident.

looking over the web, everyone seems to think the current model is the same as the one build 20+ years ago (wrong).
I'm not commenting much on the design of the vessel so much as the operator who regardless of how he did it managed to kill two of his passengers.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:48   #88
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
I bet the captain and/or owner gets charged with negligent homicide. So, are there California or Coast Guard regulations regarding occupants or capacities on sailboats and how do they apply to cruisers? For my information, any members familiar with their countries rules.
I'm sure there was a violation in there some where.

TITLE 33 - NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER S - BOATING SAFETY

PART 183 - BOATS AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT

subpart c - SAFE LOADING

183.31 - Applicability.

This subpart applies to monohull boats less than 20 feet in length except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats.



Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/183-31-appli...#ixzz1I0fD892Z

Quote:
33 C. F. R. 183.23 Capacity marking required.

Each boat must be marked in the manner prescribed in 183.25 and 183.27 with the maximum persons capacity in whole numbers of persons and in pounds, the maximum weight capacity in pounds, determined under 183.33 through 183.43, and the maximum horsepower capacity determined under 183.53 or the statement “This Boat Not Rated for Propulsion by a Motor”.
[CGD 78–034, 45 FR 2029, Jan. 10, 1980, as amended by USCG–1999–5832, 64 FR 34716, June 29, 1999]
183.25 Display of markings.
top
(a) Each marking required by 183.23 must be permanently displayed in a legible manner where it is clearly visible to the operator when getting the boat underway.
(b) The information required by 183.23 must be displayed in the following manner:
(1) For outboard boats:
U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities
XX Persons or XXX Pounds
XXX Pounds, persons, motor, gear
XXX Horsepower, motor
or
U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities
XX Persons or XXX Pounds
XXX Pounds, persons, motor, gear
XXX Horsepower, motor with remote steering
XXX Horsepower, motor without remote steering
(2) For inboard boats and inboard-outboard boats:
U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities
XX Persons or XXX Pounds
XXX Pounds, persons, gear
(3) For boats rated for motors of 2 horsepower or less:
U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities
XX Persons or XXX Pounds
XXX Pounds, persons, motor, gear
XXX Horsepower, motor
(4) For boats rated for manual propulsion:
U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities
XX Persons or XXX Pounds
XXX Pounds, persons, gear
This Boat Not Rated for Propulsion by Motor
(c) The capacity information displays required in paragraph (b) must meet the following as illustrated in Figure 183.25:

View or download PDF
(1) The capacity information required in 183.23 must be displayed within a yellow area that—
(i) Is at least 4 inches wide; and
(ii) Is high enough that each line of print is separated by at least 1/8 inch from each other and from the borders of the yellow area;
(2) The persons capacity in whole numbers must be black print with the following dimensions:
(i) The height must not be smaller than one-half inch;
(ii) The width of the numbers must be three-fifths of the height except for the number “4”, which shall be one stroke width wider, and the number “1”, which shall be one stroke in width;
(iii) The stroke width shall be one-sixth of the height; and
(iv) The minimum space between the numbers shall be one stroke width.
(3) The words in the line “XX Persons or XXX Pounds” must be at least one-quarter inch in height but not larger than one-half the height of the persons capacity number and of a color contrasting with yellow. The number of pounds in this line must be at least one-eighth inch in height but no larger than one-half the height of the persons capacity number and of a color contrasting with yellow.
(4) All remaining words and numbers required to be within the yellow area required in paragraph (c)(1) must be at least one-eighth inch in height, but no larger than one-half the height of the persons capacity number.
(5) All other words and numbers on the displays must be located outside the yellow area on a background color which contrasts with yellow.
(6) The words “Maximum Capacities” must be at least one-quarter inch in height and of color contrasting with its background.
(7) The words “U.S. Coast Guard” must be at least one-eighth inch in height and of color contrasting with its background.

.
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:49   #89
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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One thing that struck me about this tragedy is that I read it last night here on the Cruisers Forum not long after it happened. Then I heard it on the radio news some 12 hours later here in New York. It struck me if you are waiting for the "journalists" to give you the news on things like this "you are backing up boys". Goes to show how the internet and sites like this can get us the news faster than the mainstream media can.
But the link on the first post was to a mainstream media site (NBC San Diego). Had you been on that site instead of here you would have had the news even earlier.


Jim
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Old 29-03-2011, 10:55   #90
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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I'm not commenting much on the design of the vessel so much as the operator who regardless of how he did it managed to kill two of his passengers.
I am not a fan of Macs. The earlier and later designs... neither were good IMHO.

It does not seem likely that this was a case of a qualified operator's negligence, but more likely the lack of instruction or oversight by the rental company's operator.

The potential of the 'public' to do foolish things is boundless. The rental company can not control what happens once someone leaves the dock... BUT they can control such a dangerous practice as grossly overloading a boat by a renter (by not renting).

Yes, the 'operator' is responsible...(likely without much knowledge, certainly poor judgment) so also would the business who would seemingly allow a group of 10 people to board a 25' boat....

Of course there may well be more to the story. If the boat left with a reasonable load, and the additional people were picked up afterward then all bets are off.
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