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Old 28-03-2011, 10:20   #31
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

My sincere condolences go out to the effected family. Here is a special warning issued for the M26 if indeed this was one: Macgregor 26M sailboat - Safety

It seems likely that the tanks were not full and that the boat was overloaded.
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Old 28-03-2011, 10:24   #32
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

"SPECIAL SAFETY INFORMATION 26M
THE WATER BALLAST TANK SHOULD BE FULL WHEN EITHER POWERING OR SAILING.

IF THE BALLAST TANK IS NOT COMPLETELY FULL, THE BOAT IS NOT SELF RIGHTING. (IF YOU CHOOSE TO OPERATE THE BOAT WITH AN EMPTY TANK, SEE THE SECTION ON OPERATING THE BOAT WITHOUT WATER BALLAST.)

WHEN THE BALLAST TANK IS FULL:
- NO MORE THAN 6 PERSONS, 960 POUNDS.

WHEN THE BALLAST TANK IS EMPTY:
- NO MORE THAN 4 PERSON, OR 640 POUNDS.
- CREW WEIGHT CENTERED FROM SIDE TO SIDE.
- ALL SAILS REMOVED, ENGINE POWER ONLY.
- NO ONE ON THE CABIN TOP OR FORDECK.
- WAVES LESS THAN 1 FOOT.
-OPERATE WHERE WATER IS WARM AND RESCUE IS LIKELY.
- NEVER OPERATE THE BOAT WITH A PARTIALLY FILLED TANK.


WHEN POWERING OVER 6 MILES PER HOUR:
- RUDDERS AND DAGGERBOARD FULL UP.
- SAILS REMOVED.
- NO ONE ON THE CABIN TOP OR FOREDECK.

ALWAYS, BEFORE OPERATING THE BOAT, CHECK TO CONFIRM THAT THE BALLAST TANK IS FULL. THE WATER LEVEL IN THE BALLAST TANK SHOULD BE NO MORE THAN 1” BELOW THE LEVEL OF THE FORWARD VENT HOLE. THEN MAKE SURE THAT THE FORWARD VENT PLUG AND THE TRANSOM VALVE ARE CLOSED AND SECURE.

THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS EXPLAIN WHY THE ABOVE RULES ARE NECESSARY.


STABILITY.
Unless the water ballast tank is completely full, with 1000 pounds of water ballast, the sailboat is not self-righting. Without the water ballast, the boat may not return to an upright position if the boat is tipped more than 60 degrees, and can capsize like most non-ballasted sailboats.

The MacGregor is big, but relatively light, and excessive crew weight can overpower the basic stability of the boat. For this reason, we have placed the restrictions on crew capacity, shown in the preceeding section.

OPERATING WITHOUT WATER BALLAST.
There may be times when you wish to operate the boat with an empty ballast tank. For example, when pulling a water skier, when trying to conserve fuel, when a faster ride is desired, or when you are in the process of filling the tank. Since only a few miles per hour are lost with a full tank, we recommend that most of your use of the boat be with a full tank. If the tank is empty, carry no more than 4 persons, or 640 pounds."
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Old 28-03-2011, 10:36   #33
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

When I first saw this pic I too said 'where's the keel'!!! On a boat this size the keel is normally fixed (no slot). I question whether it fell off or was knocked off and perhaps they violently jibed?! That would throw occupants overboard and probably capsize the vessel. Even a violent jibe may be enough to rip the keel free?
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Old 28-03-2011, 10:38   #34
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by seasick View Post
My sincere condolences go out to the effected family. Here is a special warning issued for the M26 if indeed this was one: Macgregor 26M sailboat - Safety

It seems likely that the tanks were not full and that the boat was overloaded.
This was a McGregor or of like design? Doesn't a McGregor still use a centerboard, I thought they did?
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Old 28-03-2011, 10:57   #35
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

The M26 design utilizes a very lightly ballasted dagger board whose purpose is to lessen leeway (not very effective) and provides no stability as regards ballast.
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Old 28-03-2011, 10:59   #36
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

If some rental shop allowed 9 people on a 26' Mc they are soon to be out of business!! or they will be under new management.
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:12   #37
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
What an interesting design. MACGREGOR 26 HOME PAGE
That video claiming 40-50 knot winds looks bogus to me.
Seas are more like 8-10 feet imho, but I feel the pucker factor for those people sailing that pathetic design. Ick!
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:12   #38
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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I believe that's the underbody of MacGregor 26. If someone forgot to fill the water ballast tanks, you could have a capsize even in benign conditions. I believe the Mac 26 has little to no stability without the ballast tanks full. I would bet that that is what happened.

You can't see a centerboard slot in the photo because the swing keel is swung up in its trunk.

No bottom paint because it is a trailer sailer.
With a ton of kids onboard and if they found the tank valve... possibly opened it and it self-bailed? I believe they say you can empty the tank while underway (perferrably under OB power).
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:15   #39
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

"-OPERATE WHERE WATER IS WARM AND RESCUE IS LIKELY."
That's a real selling point!!!

These boats are filled with positive floatation in the form of foam and if the tanks were empty there should have been adequate buoyancy to keep it floating in its stable-two position...bottom up. Is there any confirmation that this boat actually sank? Seems highly unlikely.

Won't try to armchair guess why these unfortunate people drowned. Simply an unfortunate set of avoidable circumstances, simply tragic really.
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:25   #40
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

In the video it is turtled and floating and doesn't appear to be going down.
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:33   #41
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Why would anyone design such a boat? Why would anyone buy such a boat?
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:37   #42
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Originally Posted by seasick View Post
"-OPERATE WHERE WATER IS WARM AND RESCUE IS LIKELY."
That's a real selling point!!!

These boats are filled with positive floatation in the form of foam and if the tanks were empty there should have been adequate buoyancy to keep it floating in its stable-two position...bottom up. Is there any confirmation that this boat actually sank? Seems highly unlikely.

Won't try to armchair guess why these unfortunate people drowned. Simply an unfortunate set of avoidable circumstances, simply tragic really.
Think I'm going to agree and close my case. My first sailer was a Vagabond 17 (a 17' day sailor, that was stripped of excess weight). It had a retractable keel and I made the error of trying to sail it with the keel retracted on it first voyage. After 3-4 terrible jibes (because it would not turn through the wind) I struggled back to the landing where I found the keel was still retracted! DOH! Had the winds been any stronger on that day I would have capsized the boat. And being new to sailing the jibes weren't all that smooth and made under considerable stress. I suggest that something quite similar happend to these folk. p.s. I like the McGregor for it size, trailer ability and outboard capability. If I ever purchase another portable vessel it will probably be a McGregor.
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:55   #43
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

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Why would anyone design such a boat? Why would anyone buy such a boat?
Not trying to defend the design, I think it is substandard.

But it is light on the trailer so can be towed by most autos. I think it's less than a ton when dry.

It sits low on the trailer with no board down so less intimidating and top heavy when towed by an auto.

It's a day-sailor for folks that want an enclosed cabin boat that is less costly than most boats of the size and has the benefit of being a easy to launch and retrieve trailer day-sailor since it can be launched from any powerboat ramp.

Does require some understanding of how to operate it safely. I would hesitate to rent such a design.

I see one on the bay most every time I go out.
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Old 28-03-2011, 12:02   #44
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Sorry. The questions are blatantly rhetorical. I feel very sorry for the poor folks who were probably unaware of its capabilities.
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Old 28-03-2011, 12:25   #45
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Re: 2 Dead, 7 Hurt in SD Sailboat Accident

Still making the gross assumption that this was an M26. For those new to the water beware, the M26 is an enormous compromise. It neither sails nor motors especially well.

They are not particularly stable when upright. They were designed with the idea that a sailboat and a speed boat could be melded into one and the end product though an interesting concept was (in the eyes of most who have owned one) an enormous failure.

I have several friends who have purchased and subsequently sold their Macgregor 26s
because although the idea of motoring a trailer sailor at 25+ knots seemed appealing at first, the reality was a scary, unstable motion under power and exceedingly unsatisfactory sailing characteristics. They roll like a dog in a dead seagull, perform horribly to windward, and leave a person wanting what they should have purchased in the first place, a good ski boat and a good trailer sailer not in one package.
Not a fan.
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