Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-06-2016, 22:46   #31
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,376
Images: 34
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

It can be pretty hard to think straight when you are rattled, terrified and likely sea-sick too. It takes a calm, and experienced, personality to keep their heads clear when things go bad in 20 foot breaking swells and things start to break. Still I agree it looks like they may have had some other options available.
__________________

__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 23:43   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Would be willing to bet the prop was fouled by the sheets from the shredded headsail. Probably tried to start the engine without clearing the lines from the water. That line could also have jammed the rudder but who knows. May have started engine without thinking when the headsail shredded and the main boom or needed reefing.

Had the pleasure of having to clear a line from around the prop off Monterey. The cold water left my hands with no feeling with in a few minutes which made a relatively minor job into a survival exercise. No wonder they weren't able to clear the prop fouling.
__________________

__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 00:09   #33
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Would be willing to bet the prop was fouled by the sheets from the shredded headsail. Probably tried to start the engine without clearing the lines from the water. That line could also have jammed the rudder but who knows. May have started engine without thinking when the headsail shredded and the main boom or needed reefing.

Had the pleasure of having to clear a line from around the prop off Monterey. The cold water left my hands with no feeling with in a few minutes which made a relatively minor job into a survival exercise. No wonder they weren't able to clear the prop fouling.
This is what I suspect too.

My guess: Loose sheets wrapped the prop while motor sailing and then bound the rudder or jammed it, which could lead to an accidental gybe, and broken boom,etc.

But, I think other things like Ann's scenario are possible too. A loss of steering could quickly lead to a bad gybe and lots of problems.

The lack of electricity and radio sounds odd. I don't recall any mention of the boat taking on water.

Clearing a prop in cold water, big seas, and poor weather or at night would be either intimidating, very difficult, dangerous, or impossible.
------

I am struck by how familiar this boats problem sounds. I know there was another very similar case a few years ago, in what I remember as the same location (roughly) that involved a similar sized sailboat with a delivery crew of 3 that were in a rescue for similar reasons. I wish I had a link to that to compare now.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 00:28   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 744
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Can anyone say what that is hanging from the bow of the boat?

Does the boom look broken to you guys?

Was the steering hydraulic?

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann
Yup. 100%. Just aft of the boom vang. Click the photos shown at the top left of the page. Photos 5, 6, and 8 clearly show the snapped boom.

Like someone else opined, "No spare sails?"

Firm believer of having a genset on a yacht. Redundancy is the spice of life.
__________________
PortClydeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 00:50   #35
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,670
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
I am struck by how familiar this boats problem sounds. I know there was another very similar case a few years ago, in what I remember as the same location (roughly) that involved a similar sized sailboat with a delivery crew of 3 that were in a rescue for similar reasons. I wish I had a link to that to compare now.
_______________
Last year, or maybe the year before last, one happened along the NSW Coast, here in Oz. It was a recently re-fit large Moody, and it was the kevlar "anchor" rode for a waverider buoy which had been blown and floated off station that they fouled: the line cut through the rudder, leading to the sad loss of the "Apollo", I think it was called...

A fouled prop would be very hard to deal with in water of that cold temp, and if whatever fouled it was metal, near hopeless. I must say, if the first event in the cascade was from trying to start the engines with line in the water, those poor guys must have missed one of their first lessons. Or, was it an independent "helpful" crew action without the skipper's knowledge? Once the boom broke (thanks, guys, for spotting the break), they would have a lot less roll dampening because of having to strike the main, and the rolling would have made everything more difficult.

FWIW, I'd think that if the headsail had gone first, then they would have retrieved the lines, in the beginning, when they could get to them, because why lose them? So, to me, the headsail had to go first, if it were the sheets that fouled the prop. The headstay looked okay, but my assumption was that the furling quit working, and if they couldn't turn it by hand, from that moment, the sail was going to be history. Therefore, why did the boom break? Well, maybe, if the headsail UN-furled all the way first, then the boat was over powered, rolled down, bringing the apparent wind forward, which caused an accidental gybe. That scenario would work for me.

Anybody got any ideas about the unknown [to me] object hanging from the bow?

Someone above wrote that experience is cool to have in one's bag of tricks. That's really true, it can help you work out alternatives, but it is also true that sometimes, the bag of tricks comes up empty.

Not enough info, imho.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 02:36   #36
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Last year, or maybe the year before last, one happened along the NSW Coast, here in Oz. It was a recently re-fit large Moody, and it was the kevlar "anchor" rode for a waverider buoy which had been blown and floated off station that they fouled: the line cut through the rudder, leading to the sad loss of the "Apollo", I think it was called...
It was "Red Sky" IIRC.

The boat was abandoned but did not sink. Washed up on a beach and was totally stripped by locals. Owner had no insurance. Guy had his whole life savings tied up in the boat. Very sad story.

However, he did actually get back on the water somehow, and posted about it on here. Grit and determination
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-ętre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 02:37   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Last year, or maybe the year before last, one happened along the NSW Coast, here in Oz. It was a recently re-fit large Moody, and it was the kevlar "anchor" rode for a waverider buoy which had been blown and floated off station that they fouled: the line cut through the rudder, leading to the sad loss of the "Apollo", I think it was called...

A fouled prop would be very hard to deal with in water of that cold temp, and if whatever fouled it was metal, near hopeless. I must say, if the first event in the cascade was from trying to start the engines with line in the water, those poor guys must have missed one of their first lessons. Or, was it an independent "helpful" crew action without the skipper's knowledge? Once the boom broke (thanks, guys, for spotting the break), they would have a lot less roll dampening because of having to strike the main, and the rolling would have made everything more difficult.

FWIW, I'd think that if the headsail had gone first, then they would have retrieved the lines, in the beginning, when they could get to them, because why lose them? So, to me, the headsail had to go first, if it were the sheets that fouled the prop. The headstay looked okay, but my assumption was that the furling quit working, and if they couldn't turn it by hand, from that moment, the sail was going to be history. Therefore, why did the boom break? Well, maybe, if the headsail UN-furled all the way first, then the boat was over powered, rolled down, bringing the apparent wind forward, which caused an accidental gybe. That scenario would work for me.

Anybody got any ideas about the unknown [to me] object hanging from the bow?

Someone above wrote that experience is cool to have in one's bag of tricks. That's really true, it can help you work out alternatives, but it is also true that sometimes, the bag of tricks comes up empty.

Not enough info, imho.
I am betting the reason it is blue is that it is the canvas sun cover sewn on the sail hanging in the water.
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 05:23   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson Valley N.Y.
Boat: contessa 32
Posts: 826
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Would be willing to bet the prop was fouled by the sheets from the shredded headsail. Probably tried to start the engine without clearing the lines from the water. That line could also have jammed the rudder but who knows. May have started engine without thinking when the headsail shredded and the main boom or needed reefing.

Had the pleasure of having to clear a line from around the prop off Monterey. The cold water left my hands with no feeling with in a few minutes which made a relatively minor job into a survival exercise. No wonder they weren't able to clear the prop fouling.
Yes by far the most likely one of the early events in a cascade that led to the rescue,explains the tattered jib.
One doesn't just jump overboard with a knife in ones teeth, swim under a heaving ship , locate the problem,find the prop and start sawing away a knotted line wound so tight as to stop a running diesel.
The disabled craft will be rolling heavily and the descending hull trying to crush your skull .Must do this one handed because in the improbale event you are superhuman enough to arrive at the prop, your effort will push you away from the boat as you try to cut the tangle below (think scrubbing the waterline while swimming alongside). In the dark,in icy water, in stormy seas,while exhausted(you didn't think you were able to get all this done in one dive did you?)?
If there is a line cutter that failed to cut the line in the first place it will now be lacerating your hand if you have not already filled the water with blood from the razor sharp knife you dove over with. Well, that knife ,is already on it's way to the bottom now while you were busy trying to claw you way to the surface after running out of air.
Hope you remembered to tie yourself to the craft ,because it is disabled and those aboard will not be able to get you back aboard anyway. So its death by hypothermia or sharks.
One might gather from the above that I've had some experience in the above described clusterf**k.
Somewhat.
So now my razor sharp knife is on a long lanyard around my neck so that I can do the cutting at arms length and let it go while clawing my way back to the surface and not loose the knife when it is let go.
However.
There is problem with this: The long lanyard allows the knife to hang between my legs as I desperately kick my way to the surface .

Just a convoluted way to say that I understand why help was called.



.......................luv you all................................mike........... ..............
__________________
mrohr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 06:32   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,927
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

This is quite normal in this area, I've lost count on how many of these "rescues " have taken place over the years. In 95% of the cases it's down to a poorly prepared boat run by a poorly prepared skipper and crew. My advise on this forum has always been, if your short on experience then coastal hop it by day sailing between fishing villages, in most cases you will motor most of the way. If you are experienced and have a decent boat go out 70 to 100 miles and get in some sailing. The real question to ask is what would you do if Uncle Sam wasn't around to save your ass? These higher latitudes are not to be confused with doing an ARC to the Caribbean, not the same kind of sailing. The Pacific high and the deep inland lows can really get the gears turning in this area and produce some very exciting sailing. There are many boats that make this journey every year without becoming poster boys and most of it gets down to good prep and good seamanship.
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 08:00   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,973
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

The Washington/Oregon coast is treacherous. Shallow bars, short weather windows, few places to hide. If a person plans that trip your vessel better be ready and crew as well. Not warm and fuzzy. Many do it, many get beat up. It's seems a few of the 6 "P"'s were missing in this case. Cautionary tale.
__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 09:28   #41
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,376
Images: 34
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

It would be great if there ends up being a follow-up so we can find out how close we were on our conjectures. I'll throw one more in: line wraps the prop shaft and prop shaft pulls out and jams rudder. Diving with a knife in your teeth won't do much for that. (So Mike, are you singing in the soprano section now?)
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 11:20   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Better photo in this article confirms it was the sail in the water.

Sailboat crew rescued after 3 days adrift | Sailing News - soSAILize.net
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 11:48   #43
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Here is the text of a linked report and the USCG photo of the cutter that towed them closer to port.

Notice the wording on the series of events. Of course we don't know how accurate this account is, but sometimes you have to take some reports for what you can.

"North Bend, Ore. — Marc Winn says he’s lucky to be alive. Winn was sailing from Washington to California with two other crew members and their dog. On Monday morning, their boat lost steering, just as the wind picked up, and a storm hit.

Winn says the storm knocked out their power, tattered their sails, and snapped their boom completely in half. The crew was helpless. Winn says all they could do was wait and try not to lose hope as their boat drifted farther and farther away from shore.

Winn said, “We loved each other. Read a little bit, what we could, but you just can’t focus on reading.”

On the third day, now 60 miles off shore, a ray of hope; Winn says the clouds parted, hitting the boat’s solar panels, giving them just enough power to call for help.

Todd Holt, who was aboard the “Rogues Scholarship”, said, “I blasted off a signal and nothing came back. I waited another hour and blasted off another one and the coast guard came back and we were pretty stoked.”

Rescue swimmer Bradley Pigage from Sector North Bend was lowered into the water to let them know that help was on its way. “They were pretty happy to see the Coast Guard. It was pretty extraordinary to have all the assets on scene. We had 2 helicopters launched, a C27 from Sacramento, small boat stationed and the cutter that was out there,” said Pigage.

The crew finally made back on dry land Wednesday night."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	116
Size:	49.3 KB
ID:	125944  
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 11:58   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

From seeing that picture I am betting their prop was fouled with the sail, they should have either pulled that sail on board or cut it free before trying to start the motor.
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 12:13   #45
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,645
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

The report was very clear that they ran over a sheet when trying to maneuver with the engine and no steering.
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
oregon, rescue, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Family of three rescued off the coast of St Marteen. neilpride Monohull Sailboats 14 02-07-2013 17:56
Three Canadian Sailors Rescued off Hawai terminalcitygrl Seamanship & Boat Handling 94 21-02-2012 18:13
Three Rescued from Stricken Saiboat off Nova Scotia Mark1977 Cruising News & Events 7 21-09-2011 13:11
Three rescued off Nova Scotia Vasco Cruising News & Events 0 16-06-2006 06:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.