Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-06-2016, 19:03   #16
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Can anyone say what that is hanging from the bow of the boat?

Does the boom look broken to you guys?

Was the steering hydraulic?

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann
No ability or willingness to figure out a jury rig to get home with? Poor guys? Nah... Dumb, lazy ignorant... Take your pick. They shouldn't have been out there IMHO.
__________________

__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 19:08   #17
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Can anyone say what that is hanging from the bow of the boat?

Does the boom look broken to you guys?

Was the steering hydraulic?

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann
Ann,

The article says the boom was broken. My guess is it was the gooseneck.
I looked at the photo as large as I could, and still could not identify the dark object in the water below the bow.

I posted this excerpt because I had recently seen a post by a new sailor who posted about buying a small boat on which to travel down the coast from Seattle to South America. Many members wisely cautioned that sailor because of the risks of that stretch of coast.

This is not the first account I have read of sailboats dismasted or disabled and requiring USCG rescue off that part of the coast. I wish I had links to the other stories, some were very similar situations.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 19:12   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

Seems none of them had the skills to rescue themselves....poor guys.

Ann
My chief's words at boot camp still ringing in my ears "When you fail to plan you plan to fail"

I wonder if they got caught with too much canvas up?
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 19:13   #19
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
No ability or willingness to figure out a jury rig to get home with? Poor guys? Nah... Dumb, lazy ignorant... Take your pick. They shouldn't have been out there IMHO.

I don't know about those guys but I talked to the CO at station Crescent City Ca. and he has had to rescue boats that lost just their mainsail.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 19:14   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

To my eyes it looks like the remnants of the Jib hanging off of the front of the boat all twisted and knotted up.
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 19:43   #21
Registered User
 
cards26's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colombia
Posts: 179
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

They deployed a sea anchor, so it could be remnants of that.
__________________
cards26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 20:04   #22
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,685
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Okay, it's easy to judge, and I have some of those feelings, too, and yet....

All we have to use to try and figure out how it happened is via the media, who often don't get the story right, or complete if they ever do. So, inadequate evidence to convict.

The picture shows a dark blue object in some disarray, hanging down from the anchoring sprit. Big Nick may be right, it may be the remains of a sail, but it is not a common color or set of colors for a headsail.... that's not evidence.

Steady Hand probably has the right of it, a broken gooseneck, possibly suw wear and tear, possibly an unprevented gybe.

The blown out headsail may have been caused by a failure in the furler mechanism. Even good quality, new sails can quickly flog themselves to death, it's really upsetting to watch. When it happened to us, due to our failure to understand what was happening with our detachable inner forestay in time, the sail was history within only a few moments--all we saved was the sheets. The foil was ruined, as well. So, I think that not only do we not know the sequence of events, but that the "planning to fail", while useful as a training concept, does not cover enough of the possibilities inherent in the situation.

They did strike the mainsail after the boom-related failure. Water was on the outside of the boat.

Something else we do not know is what part(s) of the steering failed. Some bits are difficult to access. It isn't too hard to imagine them, sailing downwind, and they get rolled down by a bigger wave, causing the rudder to shear off. Who or whatever's steering then tries to steer unsuccessfull, and raises the alarm. The boat rounds up, and the mainsail flogs. if it rounded up suddenly on the opposite tack, then they were lucky the gooseneck broke, and not the boom (booms are $$$).

Now, they are disabled, and with low batteries? Why? Equipment failure? Inexperience? Who knows?

Did the crew agitate to be rescued? They did outnumber the skipper?

Did none of them have McGyvering experience?

Anyhow, I would really like to hear from the ones involved what happened, and in what sequence. I wonder if they had a staysail they could fly? what that is hanging off the bow and its purpose? had they attempted to create some kind of sea anchor? They were out there 3 days, they had time to try a lot of stuff, and we have no knowledge of what and how they tried.

Let the one who has never had a mishap at sea be the one to be judgmental, it won't be me. We've had a lack of thinking through come back to bite us years after the error in thought occurred, and we, at least try, to question our own thinking, and honestly, I find it quite hard. Much easier to see after the fact. These people have been through a harrowing experience, and sometimes we lack the necessary skills, or sometimes the materials to even jury rig. Preparations stop somewhere. Few vessels carry jury rudders other than racers. Few sailors even have practiced with their emergency tillers, mostly wheel steering anyhow on a boat of this one's size. So what failed is really a big part of this story--and we don't know.

And that's why I said, "poor guys", because I know how scary a series of failures can be, and how demoralizing a major breakage can be, well offshore.

Ann (with apologies for such a lengthy rebuttal)
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 20:06   #23
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,650
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
No spare sails at all on board? No emergency tiller? No hand held VHF? Makes you wonder. ____Grant.
No way to heat food, no dinghy(?)
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 20:17   #24
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,685
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

"left them with a fouled prop and no steerage" .... and possibly not able to clear the fouling, cables from adrift buoys or crab pots can do that, to the point where the boat must be hauled to repair.

There are rude terms for this kind of cascade of destructive events; the ones i know all have the "f" word in them....
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 20:59   #25
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,391
Images: 34
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

By the SOUND of it, they did not SEEM well prepared. However I have heard of well-found boats and experienced skippers see things go south in a cascade in a hurry at times; there was a post not too long ago here from a gentleman who lost his boat not far from that area (he was selling his Fatty Knees as I recall). God knows I have seen things get a little out of hand at times in bad weather! I have to say my first reaction is "ugh, that stretch of coast," and secondly, "sheesh, I have more back-up equipment in my rinky-dink little boat!" It does seem that the boat took good care of them though.
After looking at the photos posted on the news report you can see the boom broke at the vang fitting. Looks like they had trouble furling the headsail and it got away from them. They were clearly slammed pretty hard. And 50 feet is a big boat in those conditions for three folks, maybe it snuck up at night and they weren't able to get the main down before things went bad. All conjecture.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 21:27   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Okay, it's easy to judge, and I have some of those feelings, too, and yet....

All we have to use to try and figure out how it happened is via the media, who often don't get the story right, or complete if they ever do. So, inadequate evidence to convict.

The picture shows a dark blue object in some disarray, hanging down from the anchoring sprit. Big Nick may be right, it may be the remains of a sail, but it is not a common color or set of colors for a headsail.... that's not evidence.

Steady Hand probably has the right of it, a broken gooseneck, possibly suw wear and tear, possibly an unprevented gybe.

The blown out headsail may have been caused by a failure in the furler mechanism. Even good quality, new sails can quickly flog themselves to death, it's really upsetting to watch. When it happened to us, due to our failure to understand what was happening with our detachable inner forestay in time, the sail was history within only a few moments--all we saved was the sheets. The foil was ruined, as well. So, I think that not only do we not know the sequence of events, but that the "planning to fail", while useful as a training concept, does not cover enough of the possibilities inherent in the situation.

They did strike the mainsail after the boom-related failure. Water was on the outside of the boat.

Something else we do not know is what part(s) of the steering failed. Some bits are difficult to access. It isn't too hard to imagine them, sailing downwind, and they get rolled down by a bigger wave, causing the rudder to shear off. Who or whatever's steering then tries to steer unsuccessfull, and raises the alarm. The boat rounds up, and the mainsail flogs. if it rounded up suddenly on the opposite tack, then they were lucky the gooseneck broke, and not the boom (booms are $$$).

Now, they are disabled, and with low batteries? Why? Equipment failure? Inexperience? Who knows?

Did the crew agitate to be rescued? They did outnumber the skipper?

Did none of them have McGyvering experience?

Anyhow, I would really like to hear from the ones involved what happened, and in what sequence. I wonder if they had a staysail they could fly? what that is hanging off the bow and its purpose? had they attempted to create some kind of sea anchor? They were out there 3 days, they had time to try a lot of stuff, and we have no knowledge of what and how they tried.

Let the one who has never had a mishap at sea be the one to be judgmental, it won't be me. We've had a lack of thinking through come back to bite us years after the error in thought occurred, and we, at least try, to question our own thinking, and honestly, I find it quite hard. Much easier to see after the fact. These people have been through a harrowing experience, and sometimes we lack the necessary skills, or sometimes the materials to even jury rig. Preparations stop somewhere. Few vessels carry jury rudders other than racers. Few sailors even have practiced with their emergency tillers, mostly wheel steering anyhow on a boat of this one's size. So what failed is really a big part of this story--and we don't know.

And that's why I said, "poor guys", because I know how scary a series of failures can be, and how demoralizing a major breakage can be, well offshore.

Ann (with apologies for such a lengthy rebuttal)
I suspect the blue color is from the sun cover sewn around the edge of the sail.

You are right that it is hard to tell why they lost steerage, there are a long list of reasons why that could have been.

To have so many failures in a row though boggles my mind. Especially the engine failing considering they were under sail when all of this went down. I am wondering if in a panic they kept trying to start the motor until the battery went dead instead of finding out why it was not getting fuel?

I am sure there are a lot of lessons to be learned here.

The greatest of which I think is knowing your equipment and thoroughly shaking it down before setting out on a long distance cruise.
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 21:30   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: 66' Spencer 42' Sloop
Posts: 382
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
By the SOUND of it, they did not SEEM well prepared. However I have heard of well-found boats and experienced skippers see things go south in a cascade in a hurry at times; there was a post not too long ago here from a gentleman who lost his boat not far from that area (he was selling his Fatty Knees as I recall). God knows I have seen things get a little out of hand at times in bad weather! I have to say my first reaction is "ugh, that stretch of coast," and secondly, "sheesh, I have more back-up equipment in my rinky-dink little boat!" It does seem that the boat took good care of them though.
After looking at the photos posted on the news report you can see the boom broke at the vang fitting. Looks like they had trouble furling the headsail and it got away from them. They were clearly slammed pretty hard. And 50 feet is a big boat in those conditions for three folks, maybe it snuck up at night and they weren't able to get the main down before things went bad. All conjecture.
He said right in the news report that they lost steering and because of it could not reef the main.
__________________
I make sailing videos!: Renegade Sailing on YouTube
BigNickMontana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 21:37   #28
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,685
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

We have broken the boom, once. It, too, broke at the vang, and was caused by a sudden burst of wind from the other side of the boat. It was prevented, and not in the way estarzinger recommends, and it happened in sheltered waters, no large seas to contend with.

On our boat, we have to come up to reef, as well, so that part's easy for me to accept, and again, i freely admit that's not the ideal situation, either. All boats are compromises.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 21:44   #29
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,391
Images: 34
Re: Three Sailors Rescued by USCG off Oregon

Ah, the steering loss. That reminds me, I met a guy two years ago who sailed his big fairly new Catalina, can't recall the size, down to Marina Del Rey from SF. All beautiful he said, no problems, all the way down, until he was checking something else and happened to see the cable on the steering quadrant had chafed nearly completely through. He had no idea, he had just bought the boat, it all seemed to be in great shape. I guess a check of the quadrant wasn't in the survey.
Sometimes it is hard to know what all the lessons are to learn. I don't know if you can have a boat or equipment that is ready for anything. I think experience, especially with lots of mistakes, is very helpful to have in your emergency kit.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 22:11   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,433
Re: Sailboat That Was "Adrift" Off Oregon Coast

I just looked at the TV report and they show that the boat clearly has an inner forestay so it should have been easy to hoist a staysail. That and an emergency tiller would have gotten them going again. Just speculation on my part. ____Grant.
__________________

__________________
gjordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
oregon, rescue, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Family of three rescued off the coast of St Marteen. neilpride Monohull Sailboats 14 02-07-2013 17:56
Three Canadian Sailors Rescued off Hawai terminalcitygrl Seamanship & Boat Handling 94 21-02-2012 18:13
Three Rescued from Stricken Saiboat off Nova Scotia Mark1977 Cruising News & Events 7 21-09-2011 13:11
Three rescued off Nova Scotia Vasco Cruising News & Events 0 16-06-2006 06:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.