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Old 24-11-2008, 12:22   #91

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Well, Gord, apparently the Liberian "Navy" still can muster enough force to defend all the vessels flagged there. The French are handling their own, the Indians have stepped up nicely, once the Chinese get a peacekeeping force on site, I'm sure the situation will be resolved without any need for American Imperialism.

Unless, of course, a US-flagged vessel is attacked again. I'm all in favor of the old Roman maxim "One glass lake discourages many pirates."

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Old 24-11-2008, 12:29   #92
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Apologies to anyone that took my comment about rats in the wrong way. It was an in answer to someone's analogy about why taking out the entire site is wrong. I am not recommending trying to wipe out the "pirate gene pool".
I simply believe that as long as there is a valid possible profit for these people, that this will continue and get worse. If every attack cost them 20 million instead of paying five, they will quit. Tell them they have 24 hours to surrender all hostages and stolen vessels. Make it plain that the town will not be there tommorrow if they do not cooperate. If they refuse, then back up your word. Burn it all. Boats, property storage, support yards, living quarters, equipment, ammunition, and anything else that looks like it cost money and might have been built with pirate profits. Let it be known that this will be the response every single time. Their own warlords will make it illegal to molest any passing ship of any kind and enforce it for us if it costs them money every time someone gets stupid.
The hostages thing can not be allowed to stand. What is happening today is pretty much predicated on it. We will not strike back because of the hostages. Well, I am a citizen. I belong to a bigger whole that is being attacked. Don't worry about me when you shoot back if they are holding me. Protect society over the individual when forced to do so. Those hostages are also part of some bigger whole that is being attacked and hurt by the pirate actions. For my choice, send the boats and tell them I better be on the dock when they get there, and if not, spend a whole lot of their money for me!

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Old 24-11-2008, 12:59   #93
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
... I'm all in favor of the old Roman maxim "One glass lake discourages many pirates."
What is a glass lake, and how does it discourage pirates?
(help me, I'm ignorant)

I don't see how your flippant & sarcastic evaluation of the Liberian "Navy" adds anything to the dialogue; except to ...
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"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

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Old 24-11-2008, 12:59   #94
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My short term solution is a UN (to make it "legal" ) exclusion zone adminstered by an international coalition of those willing to provide warships etc

Starting say 30 miles out from the Somali Coast and extending maybe 300 miles to (and including) International Waters. All boats / ships that enter the Zone must get pre-clearance (and maybe a transponder to monitor?) and subject to spot searches. Could even authorise some Somali Deepwater fishing boats, as long as they meet the conditions.

Anything in the Zone without authorisation gets sunk.

Longer term? Need peace and (relative) prosperity ashore....or at least a semblance of civil order.

I would favour dividing Somalia into 3 autonomous regions under a UN protecterate as the central and international authority - the more inneffictive centrally the better. (It's really creating 3 Countries - by another name and removing their ability to create trouble internationally, until we (I mean the UN ) find out what side the locals are on).

Probably end up with 2 regions folk could deal with to create fledgling banana states (I mean Democratic Societies ) The third region? well, you now have 2 freindly armies (I mean local defence volunteers ) to arm ($$$!) and use to bring peace and democracy to their unruly neighbours. or kill them (for their own good) whilst trying.
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Old 24-11-2008, 13:38   #95
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The reference to nuclear strikes to settle a regional pirate problem is simply way way out there. There is no need to pollute and utterly destroy another place on earth beyond rebuilding safely for many generations, no profit for either side as you would now have to avoid the area because of the radioactive dust clouds for the forseeable future, and in general do nothing positive in any way I can see.
Actions have consequences and just because you did a something good for your side action does that mean that the results will be good. Example. The Drug War.
Someone's mamma and pappa decided they did not like people using certain at that time natural substances for their pleasure. They got enough support to get laws passed to stop this evil thing. Today, years later, several thousand of our youth are imprisoned being abused, the profits from the illegal drug trade supports vitually every terrorist army on earth, we give other countries more money than it would take to hospitalize every problem druggie in our country several times a year to try and bribe them not to grow the plants, the ban supports prices that guarantee that the problem addicts will have to steal and destroy everything they get their hands to buy naturally occuring substances no harder to grow than coffee or sugar, and makes sure that all of that enormous cash flow funnels off shore to terrorist bank accounts. This is all in the face of plain evidense that proves that interdiction does not work at all. If they put all the potential addicts on an island and drug tested them once a week, someone would develop a drug that was out of your system in less than a week that could be made from local supplies. The well intentioned "War On Drugs" has become a war against the American people with us paying for the other side's armys!
Not all of what are percieved as societal problems can be fixed with a new law and money, even written by the best people with the best intentions!
What Somalia decides to do for itself is not my business. Discouraging them from building a lawless society that lives by taking from others is.
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Old 24-11-2008, 14:48   #96
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Play Video APShipping route changes because of pirates

AP – In this photo released by Indian Navy PRO, anti-piracy operations by Indian Navy's warship INS Tabar …

KUALA LUMPUR, MalaysiaShipping officials from around the world called Monday for a military blockade along Somalia's coast to intercept pirate vessels heading out to sea. Yemen's government said Somali pirates have seized another ship.

Moderator edit: You can read the entire story here
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Old 24-11-2008, 23:05   #97
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Runner, the problem is what you refer to often in your posts 'profit'. The big guys are in it purely for profit which in turn means sooner or later someone will be screwed. In this case big fishing companies destroying the local stocks, in the interest of profit, so to eat the local have to do some thing, in this case pinch cargos and that has lead to pinching ships. Sure planting a garden is a great idea but telling your hungry 5 year old "Don't scream in hunger, the carrots will be yummy in 6 months time' probably doesn't work that well.

I know what your trying to say but just change a few words and your posts could easily be referring to the profiteering seen on Wall Street that has lead 10 of 1,000,000's of people being screwed, some to the point of being food less and doing bad things to eat.

Are you advocating bombing Wall Street and the supposed business leaders as well or just those who use guns rather than financial instruments as their weapon of choice?

Use all the money and troops being spent chasing the pirates to plant gardens and sort out local infrastructure and a lot of the problem will go away. Dump some of the huge grain and other stock piles the countries sending the warships to the area have while the food grows.

If sections of the world stopped concentrating purely on 'profit' a very large amount of the world troubles like this will go away.

Yes there will always be bad bastards but I'd suggest many of these 'pirates' and what some refer too as 'terrorists' are only Joe Averages trying to feed their kids using bad methods purely out of desperation and lack of other options.
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Old 25-11-2008, 00:20   #98
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Aid to Somalia does not work.I just enriches the warlords.
Whatever is done about this piracy should be done on the water.
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Old 25-11-2008, 04:28   #99
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After a discussion amongst the moderators we have decided this thread has run its course and is being closed.

If there are any questions please feel free to PM a member of the moderation team (you can find us in bold in the user list).

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