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Old 25-09-2018, 00:07   #586
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

VOICEMEMO: UPDATE MARK #2
24-09-18

����️ Hi all, Another message from me on the boat Maverick. It have been incredibly heavy. I’ll talk you trough this bizarre storm from the start of it until now. The wind began from the North West, increasing to 40-45 knots with stronger gusts. With this direction everything went well, no big issues. For the main part in this fase Maverick was on 3 reefs and storm jib and getting along very well.

At 6:00 am Gregor reached me on the radio, warning me for the front that just had passed him, with bizarre windspeeds from West. It was much more wind than he expected en it resulted in losing his mizzen mast. So that was really way too heavy. Then it was Abhilash on the radio, he was not in a good mood. He was a bit impressed due to the fact that he lost his mizzen boom break in the big winds and seas. What worried me is that Gregor said having hard times keeping the wind and waves right on the stern, while his boat constantly tended to wipe out. We said let’s have radiocontact at 11 o’clock. But both Gregor and Abhilash did not show up on the radio.. Meanwhile I was in the middle of the low. It went right over me, resulting in no wind at all, in an instant with big seas. That lasted 2 to 3 hours. At that moment I decided to give Don a call. In case of emergency it is at all times allowed to phone Don. Then I heard the sad news that Gregor rolled 360 and also lost his main mast. Meanwhile the wind started building rapidly around me. After that Don texted me: 'Hold on tight, you’ll get 65 knots plus ! Holy crap.'

When I was in the middle of it Don texted me that I had to go back because Tomy was in big trouble. He was said he had a severe backinjury. When I looked at the sea state it was immediately clear to me that going back to Tomy was simply impossible. Wave hights reached easily 50 ft and it was absolutely impossible to go against it close hauled. Besides, it was pitch dark and when I got this message a huge wavecrest went over the boat. It crashed the aft hatch. Eeh, it just exploded! The next two waves came over and filled the boat till the nav station. So that gives an idea of the circumstances I was in. No way that I would be able to reach Tomy at this time! I managed to fetch another hatch to close the gap before my boat was completely filled. It is funny, no of course not funny at all but It's amazing how quick and how systematically you are thinking in crisis situations like this!

I just put on the new hatch, bang! And put on a big pump, just sat on the pump. When the water was below 20 inches I unplugged all electronics. Just put everything loose. Meanwhile the SBB radio was completely flooded. Then the cable which connects my Aries windvane and tiller broke, so Maverick ended up with wind and waves on the beam, not good! This was definitively a dangerous situation.When the electrical bilge pumpes gained control over the water inside the boat , at the level of the floor boards I could go outside. Before start we discussed many options, among the skippers, what to do to deal with storm situations. Throwing warps over board and trawl heavy stuff and so. To keep the stern in the wind and break waves before they reach you. Well, I thought a lot and pondered these problems. But I quickly saw the boat wasn’t behaving in a sound way with that stuff behind the boat. So I decided halfway the storm to pull the 200 meter lines and everything back on board. That was much better! I also put the storm jib up instead of sailing under bare poles, like Gregor did. I trimmed the storm jib and maintained good speed. I do really think that has saved me. Several times, eh… At a certain moment I broached once every 30 minutes or so. A bunch of knock downs in a short while. I was handsteering all the time since I managed to get rid of the water inside the boat. Then I was knocked down and found myself in the water. Luckily I managed to get back on board. I decided that it was too dangerous outside. So I fixed the cable of the Aries windvane and went inside.

Some folks might know what it is like to replace the stearing cable, but it is a totally different story when you have to hang outside the boat for half a meter trying to replace a small cable while the wind is blowing with 70-80 knots! That was simply too bizar for words, but if you persist and do not give up, you will succeed as I did. In the meanwhile the sprayhood was removed and the sails on the sides where gone, the railings were weak and the scepters were bent. Yes, really everything you can think of was damaged.

But it doesn’t matter anymore; the boat is sailing again thanks to the Aries vane Gear. I can not believe how incredibly strong the Aries Windvane is. It did not break or even got damaged, I'm really amazed by this vane and very thankful of course. While I was outside, stearing, I noticed and smelled smoke coming from inside the boat. I ran inside to check what was going on and saw that three lamps caught fire. Not so smart to place 40 ampere fuses between those three lamps. This probably happened during the final stressful moments prepping the boat.

After dealing with the fire, I replaced the stearing cables and went inside and waited. The waiting was nerve racking as it lasted 10 hours before the wind dropped to 40 knots. During these hours Don sent me messages to support me: ‘keep up the work, you are doing well’. I can say that this was the worst survival moment in my life. But I made it. And I can even see some positive details: I only had 1 big braker behind the boat. The hood was broken, it was hanging sideways. But Frank, you did make a perfect thing as I could put it back without any hastle. It just has one tear, that's all! The only thing that's a bummer is that I can't zip the back flap anymore, but that is all.

The entire railing at the back came to the front 5 or 6 centimeter. Again you can imagine how bizar it was. Really really bizar. I can not believe how much force the sea holds. I will never ever again drag lines or anything for that matter, behind the boat whilst being in a storm. The best thing is to go fast forward, in the same direction as the waves, as than the force is less powerful you know. If you drive your bike very slowly you also fall, that's the same with a boat. I do not understand all those stories that people drag stuff behind their boats, that's really nonsense. As soon as I removed the lines, the boat immediately started stearing again, perfectly on the wind.

What can I tell, everything is wet inside the boat. My sleeping bags, my beds, Uhm. I did not had a proper sleep in 3 days. Yesterday there was a little sun and 1 sleeping bag dried a bit. So last night was the first night that I was not too cold. The nights before I was sleeping on the floor.

Also all the cabinets where the food is stored where filled with 20-30 cm water, everywhere. You can simply not believe it. All my maps are wet, my books. Everything, everything, everything is wet. I lost 4 extra rolls of toilet paper. Bizar! And the drying is going really slow as the weather is also wet and humid. But you know, I will not give up and hang in there. I can manage the fact that everything is wet. I placed wet stuff underneath my body when I went to bed, this helps getting stuff dry. As I lay on top of them, they dry! The maps are hanging everywhere in the boat. For the rest everything goes well.

We will just go on. I will speak to you again soon.
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Old 25-09-2018, 00:20   #587
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

^^^^^^^^

the stuff of heroes and legends...

Harder men than me.

Jim
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Old 25-09-2018, 00:42   #588
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Holy crap, this bit from her is incredible. Huge respect from here, that's for sure.
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Old 25-09-2018, 01:49   #589
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Very interesting his experience with warps and thoughts about “going fast” and keeping steerage.

I don’t have experience with 50’ waves and 65 knot winds so can’t comment intelligently on it.
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Old 25-09-2018, 03:04   #590
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Yes very interesting info and a full on experiance. Very Motessier. And it contradicts many series drogue and parachute anchor experiences. I can't help thinking drag devices either need to be big enough to really slow the boat down and keep the stern pointed into the wind, or low enough in drag that the boat is free to move. Anyway it worked well for him.
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Old 25-09-2018, 03:19   #591
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Oh yeah, no, I meant why not start with one?


If the rudder and trim tab get damaged or lost, you've lost your self-steering as well. If you improvise a jury rudder it's much easier to do so without a trim-tab, I'd guess.
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Old 25-09-2018, 04:13   #592
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Very interesting his experience with warps and thoughts about “going fast” and keeping steerage.

I don’t have experience with 50’ waves and 65 knot winds so can’t comment intelligently on it.
Hard to imagine such big waves alright and presumably very long wavelengths as well.
Maybe the warps were not long enough to match the wavelength.
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:12   #593
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Hard to imagine such big waves alright and presumably very long wavelengths as well.
Maybe the warps were not long enough to match the wavelength.
http://www.cpshalifax.com/PDF_Files/...ves-dobson.pdf

"Waves with periods of about 10 seconds are common at sea; their wavelength is 156 m and they travel at 15.6 metres/sec (or 31

knots) with a group speed of 15.5 knots. The longest wind waves we see in

the North Atlantic have periods of about 20 sec, leading to wavelengths of

624 m and phase speeds of 32 m/sec."

This storm had waves with a forcast period of 11 seconds, so somewhere over 160 meters or so of wavelength and a wave speed of around 30 knots. Scary numbers...
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:20   #594
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Yes very interesting info and a full on experiance. Very Motessier. And it contradicts many series drogue and parachute anchor experiences. I can't help thinking drag devices either need to be big enough to really slow the boat down and keep the stern pointed into the wind, or low enough in drag that the boat is free to move. Anyway it worked well for him.
Yes, very Moitessier; IIRC, Bernard wrote in Cape Horn: The Logical Route of cutting away trailing drogues and allowing Joshua to sail "unshackled" before the storms.
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:31   #595
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowtulip View Post
If the rudder and trim tab get damaged or lost, you've lost your self-steering as well. If you improvise a jury rudder it's much easier to do so without a trim-tab, I'd guess.


With anything but the hydrovane style aux rudder the same applies.

I think Don’s point was good. A simple trim tab on the back of the standard rudder would have added another layer of redundancy.

Given how this race has revealed the critical nature of wind vanes I am guessing we will see some interesting new approaches to them for the next race. Clearly the Airies is going to be a popular choice but maybe a few boats will be sporting multiple options. A trim tab on a transom hung rudder would be one such multi option solution.

On the Airies, if the company doesn’t use Mark’s comments above in their advertising material they are missing the greatest marketing text they are ever likely to receive.
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:44   #596
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Yes, very Moitessier; IIRC, Bernard wrote in Cape Horn: The Logical Route of cutting away trailing drogues and allowing Joshua to sail "unshackled" before the storms.
It will be good to hear more about Abhilash and Gregors experiences. I am pretty sure Gregor was running with warps. I have no idea what Ahbilash was doing.

Warps alone have not worked well many times in the past. From Tzu Hang's pitchpole through to Suhaili being knocked down and dismasted in the Atlantic years after the first GGR.

https://youtu.be/YTWx_PAjfpk
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:52   #597
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

On the trim tab thing. I've sailed three boats with them on the main rudder. Both worked but they weren't as good as a servo pendulum downwind when they tended to oversteer. I also didn't like the flutter they produced on the main rudder if they had any play. But it seems like a perfect lightweight emergency solution for the transom steered GGR boats.
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Old 25-09-2018, 05:55   #598
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Well, Gregor has a spare. With luck he'll give it to you and you'll have a pair again.
When I lost my Croc I had to get rid of the other one. It was just too difficult to look at one lonely Croc and remember the good times. Also there would be questions of size, L/R, and colour - although a mismatched pair would be a fashion statement and good conversation starter.
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Old 25-09-2018, 06:08   #599
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

I wonder what effects Gregor's 2 furling headsails had on his boats stability curve. The sails would have also caused quite a bit additional load on the rig in the water. IIRC Mark slats has hank on sails.
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Old 25-09-2018, 06:27   #600
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahun View Post
VOICEMEMO: UPDATE MARK #2
24-09-18

����️ Hi all, Another message from me on the boat Maverick. It have been incredibly heavy. I’ll talk you trough this bizarre storm from the start of it until now. The wind began from the North West, increasing to 40-45 knots with stronger gusts. With this direction everything went well, no big issues. For the main part in this fase Maverick was on 3 reefs and storm jib and getting along very well.

At 6:00 am Gregor reached me on the radio, warning me for the front that just had passed him, with bizarre windspeeds from West. It was much more wind than he expected en it resulted in losing his mizzen mast. So that was really way too heavy. Then it was Abhilash on the radio, he was not in a good mood. He was a bit impressed due to the fact that he lost his mizzen boom break in the big winds and seas. What worried me is that Gregor said having hard times keeping the wind and waves right on the stern, while his boat constantly tended to wipe out. We said let’s have radiocontact at 11 o’clock. But both Gregor and Abhilash did not show up on the radio.. Meanwhile I was in the middle of the low. It went right over me, resulting in no wind at all, in an instant with big seas. That lasted 2 to 3 hours. At that moment I decided to give Don a call. In case of emergency it is at all times allowed to phone Don. Then I heard the sad news that Gregor rolled 360 and also lost his main mast. Meanwhile the wind started building rapidly around me. After that Don texted me: 'Hold on tight, you’ll get 65 knots plus ! Holy crap.'

When I was in the middle of it Don texted me that I had to go back because Tomy was in big trouble. He was said he had a severe backinjury. When I looked at the sea state it was immediately clear to me that going back to Tomy was simply impossible. Wave hights reached easily 50 ft and it was absolutely impossible to go against it close hauled. Besides, it was pitch dark and when I got this message a huge wavecrest went over the boat. It crashed the aft hatch. Eeh, it just exploded! The next two waves came over and filled the boat till the nav station. So that gives an idea of the circumstances I was in. No way that I would be able to reach Tomy at this time! I managed to fetch another hatch to close the gap before my boat was completely filled. It is funny, no of course not funny at all but It's amazing how quick and how systematically you are thinking in crisis situations like this!

I just put on the new hatch, bang! And put on a big pump, just sat on the pump. When the water was below 20 inches I unplugged all electronics. Just put everything loose. Meanwhile the SBB radio was completely flooded. Then the cable which connects my Aries windvane and tiller broke, so Maverick ended up with wind and waves on the beam, not good! This was definitively a dangerous situation.When the electrical bilge pumpes gained control over the water inside the boat , at the level of the floor boards I could go outside. Before start we discussed many options, among the skippers, what to do to deal with storm situations. Throwing warps over board and trawl heavy stuff and so. To keep the stern in the wind and break waves before they reach you. Well, I thought a lot and pondered these problems. But I quickly saw the boat wasn’t behaving in a sound way with that stuff behind the boat. So I decided halfway the storm to pull the 200 meter lines and everything back on board. That was much better! I also put the storm jib up instead of sailing under bare poles, like Gregor did. I trimmed the storm jib and maintained good speed. I do really think that has saved me. Several times, eh… At a certain moment I broached once every 30 minutes or so. A bunch of knock downs in a short while. I was handsteering all the time since I managed to get rid of the water inside the boat. Then I was knocked down and found myself in the water. Luckily I managed to get back on board. I decided that it was too dangerous outside. So I fixed the cable of the Aries windvane and went inside.

Some folks might know what it is like to replace the stearing cable, but it is a totally different story when you have to hang outside the boat for half a meter trying to replace a small cable while the wind is blowing with 70-80 knots! That was simply too bizar for words, but if you persist and do not give up, you will succeed as I did. In the meanwhile the sprayhood was removed and the sails on the sides where gone, the railings were weak and the scepters were bent. Yes, really everything you can think of was damaged.

But it doesn’t matter anymore; the boat is sailing again thanks to the Aries vane Gear. I can not believe how incredibly strong the Aries Windvane is. It did not break or even got damaged, I'm really amazed by this vane and very thankful of course. While I was outside, stearing, I noticed and smelled smoke coming from inside the boat. I ran inside to check what was going on and saw that three lamps caught fire. Not so smart to place 40 ampere fuses between those three lamps. This probably happened during the final stressful moments prepping the boat.

After dealing with the fire, I replaced the stearing cables and went inside and waited. The waiting was nerve racking as it lasted 10 hours before the wind dropped to 40 knots. During these hours Don sent me messages to support me: ‘keep up the work, you are doing well’. I can say that this was the worst survival moment in my life. But I made it. And I can even see some positive details: I only had 1 big braker behind the boat. The hood was broken, it was hanging sideways. But Frank, you did make a perfect thing as I could put it back without any hastle. It just has one tear, that's all! The only thing that's a bummer is that I can't zip the back flap anymore, but that is all.

The entire railing at the back came to the front 5 or 6 centimeter. Again you can imagine how bizar it was. Really really bizar. I can not believe how much force the sea holds. I will never ever again drag lines or anything for that matter, behind the boat whilst being in a storm. The best thing is to go fast forward, in the same direction as the waves, as than the force is less powerful you know. If you drive your bike very slowly you also fall, that's the same with a boat. I do not understand all those stories that people drag stuff behind their boats, that's really nonsense. As soon as I removed the lines, the boat immediately started stearing again, perfectly on the wind.

What can I tell, everything is wet inside the boat. My sleeping bags, my beds, Uhm. I did not had a proper sleep in 3 days. Yesterday there was a little sun and 1 sleeping bag dried a bit. So last night was the first night that I was not too cold. The nights before I was sleeping on the floor.

Also all the cabinets where the food is stored where filled with 20-30 cm water, everywhere. You can simply not believe it. All my maps are wet, my books. Everything, everything, everything is wet. I lost 4 extra rolls of toilet paper. Bizar! And the drying is going really slow as the weather is also wet and humid. But you know, I will not give up and hang in there. I can manage the fact that everything is wet. I placed wet stuff underneath my body when I went to bed, this helps getting stuff dry. As I lay on top of them, they dry! The maps are hanging everywhere in the boat. For the rest everything goes well.

We will just go on. I will speak to you again soon.
Very interesting to read this and we all process this from the perspective of our experience. Some things I can readily identify with, somethings not.

"I had to go back" - I have never sailed in 65 knots but even at 40 knots with waves around 20 feet it would be a very difficult task. I considered this in terms of going a short distance for a MOB. Probably could do it. In much more severe conditions not a chance.

"It's amazing how quick and how systematically you are thinking in crisis situations like this!" - I very much can identify with this one and have had crew say how impressed they were in how my wife and I dealt with sudden issues. When something happens you just get on with fixing it without even thinking or being emotional. We had the intermediate mast tang (leeward side fortunately) break about 600 miles off the mouth of the Amazon causing the two lowers to drop on deck. Within about five minutes we had jury-rigged supports that carried us without drama to Grenada.

"totally different story when you have to hang outside the boat for half a meter trying to replace a small cable while the wind is blowing with 70-80 knots!" - hard to imagine doing this. We used a Monitor with rope steering lines and we had to reattach broken ones a couple of times. These tended to break at the bottom of the strut, so as far away from the deck as possible. The knot attaching the line to the strut would sometimes get pinched at the first sheave and chafe. Only had to do this in tropical conditions with winds less than 30 knots. Couldn't reach the area from deck so had to climb down onto the frame of the unit and sit with feet in the water to do so. Actually quite a pleasant little job in benign conditions.
I am a big fan of the Monitor but the one time we did get knocked down the main gears did become disengaged. Not hard to fix if you know how to do it. We had never done it so ended up hand steering for five days. When we got to port we practiced the manoeuvre a few times, but of course never needed to do it again (I think there is a universal law that explains that.)

"What can I tell, everything is wet inside the boat." - Wet is bad, Wet and cold is worse. It is so nice to be able to go below and find a dry bed and dry clothes after a miserable time on watch. All this stuff that got wet will never totally dry. At best it will be clammy and damp.
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