Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-12-2018, 13:04   #901
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newport Beach, California
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 35
Posts: 135
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
A comment about JSD's.... The ones you buy are considered by the manufacturers to be a single use item.

What happens when more than one storm approaches your vessel?

Weight attachment to a Jordan Series Drogue is critical according Donald Jordan. On average Jordan suggests adding 35 to 50 pounds. Some media sources and suppliers of the JSD recommend much less -- 10 to 15 pounds. Such low amounts of weight placed on the JSD can result in shock loading which can damage cones and break rode.

Tests indicate shock loading may weaken rode by approximately 50%. Dacron and Nylon rodes absorb water further reducing rode strength. Wet nylon loses approximately 40% of its strength. Now add current or waves pushing your boat around into the equation. This information is mentioned in the YouTube video ďCapt. Teresa Carey deploys a Para-Anchor, Series and a Shark Drogue.Ē

Another YouTube video by atomvoyager reveals shock loading with the series drogue when approximately 8 pounds is attached. You can see the bridle slackening and then violently become taut. Such shock loading can quickly break rode if used in a storm. You can also see waves breaking near the transom which is not a good sign. Had the video been shot in larger seas the boat wouldíve likely been swamped. Similar to what happened in the figure 8 challenge before Randallís Series Drogue broke.
__________________

Fi2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 16:06   #902
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 16,786
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Ya know, I never saw one painted, before. You have to be careful how you prime aluminum to get paint to stick. I think you are looking at a priming failure.

Ann
__________________

__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 16:25   #903
Registered User
 
funjohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Out cruising again (Currently Norway)
Boat: 37' aluminum pilothouse "Elements"
Posts: 2,334
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Ya know, I never saw one painted, before. You have to be careful how you prime aluminum to get paint to stick. I think you are looking at a priming failure.

Ann


It looks like all the used Sailomats with flaking blue paint. Really a poor idea to paint this instead of keeping the clear anodized finish of the old Aries, but cosmetics don't matter in this race.

Matt
__________________
Youtube MJ sailing - Vlog
MJSailing.com - Written Blog
Rebuilt Aluminum Boat Over 2 Years... Now Back Cruising!
funjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 16:29   #904
Registered User
 
funjohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Out cruising again (Currently Norway)
Boat: 37' aluminum pilothouse "Elements"
Posts: 2,334
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
On another note, I am off to the deep south again for a month, so I will be without means to follow this thread. Hopefully my nominated GGR adviser will give me the odd update. (I am talking about you Gilow)



https://youtu.be/pu4ogCy5d4k

I'm so jealous! I'll keep applying to PAE and hopefully make it down there one day.

Matt
__________________
Youtube MJ sailing - Vlog
MJSailing.com - Written Blog
Rebuilt Aluminum Boat Over 2 Years... Now Back Cruising!
funjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 16:41   #905
Bailing as fast as I can.
 
GILow's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Boat: Swanson 42
Posts: 5,513
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Ya know, I never saw one painted, before. You have to be careful how you prime aluminum to get paint to stick. I think you are looking at a priming failure.

Ann
You are probably right... though it doesn't show too well in the photo, it actually looked a bit abraded to me.

Either way, I'm surprised by the level of deterioration in just six months.
__________________
Count-down has commenced.
GILow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 17:49   #906
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: A cold and grey Antofagasta
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 5,239
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilenart View Post
The safety tube on the monitor is designed to fail. However this is the 2nd time Susie's monitor has failed at the height of the storm. I really wonder if the safety tube should be stronger as this is defintely the wrong time to fail and would be unrepairable until conditions moderated. In contrast Mark's windvane (an Aries?) kept working throughout his storm in the Indian ocean.

Hopefully the maker's of Monitor's are following the GGR and are looking at an engineering solution. Maybe a "southern ocean" safety tube and / or re-engineering a stronger unit.

Ilenart
Different storms... different sea states...

Possibly in Mark's storm the heavy sea was as seen on the cover of this vvv edition of 'Once is Enough' and also in several of the sketches made by the Smeetons themselves which I assume are in all editions.....

Now looking at Susie's storm.... considering the wind force and the rate at which the wind backed I would suggest that Susie was in quite a different and very confused sea.

Falling off a wave sideways ....not the one that pitchpoled her - an earlier one ..... could lead to the windvane trying to turn the yacht -lets say - to port while the boat was taking a wild sheer to starboard... that would lead to the 'paddle' presenting itself at right angles to the not inconsiderable force of the water...

That ...in similar but nowhere near as bad conditions... happened to me in the same area in 2016 .... snapped my aux rudder in half like a carrot...

Now if people followed 'Rule 1020' stuff like this would not happen....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TzuHang.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	176.2 KB
ID:	181773   Click image for larger version

Name:	P2290240.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	147.8 KB
ID:	181774  

__________________
Simple Celestial https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5blh1rgvi...ation.pdf?dl=0

A little bit about Chile http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile
El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 17:59   #907
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: West Australia
Boat: Hallberg-Rassy 40
Posts: 61
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Different storms... different sea states...

Possibly in Mark's storm the heavy sea was as seen on the cover of this vvv edition of 'Once is Enough' and also in several of the sketches made by the Smeetons themselves which I assume are in all editions.....

Now looking at Susie's storm.... considering the wind force and the rate at which the wind backed I would suggest that Susie was in quite a different and very confused sea...
I understand that Mark was in a very confused sea and actually passed thru the eye of the storm, so it would of been a washing machine. Susie also passed very close to the eye and I assume had waves coming from more than one direction. So the storms they both endured appear to be similar.

Ilenart
ilenart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 18:08   #908
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: A cold and grey Antofagasta
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 5,239
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilenart View Post
I understand that Mark was in a very confused sea and actually passed thru the eye of the storm, so it would of been a washing machine. Susie also passed very close to the eye and I assume had waves coming from more than one direction. So the storms they both endured appear to be similar.

Ilenart
Ah... missed that...or forgot it... nothing new there .... so if sea conditions were equal then it could be design issues... unless he was sailing fast and she was just jogging along with drogue deployed...
__________________
Simple Celestial https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5blh1rgvi...ation.pdf?dl=0

A little bit about Chile http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile
El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2018, 21:15   #909
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

OVERLOAD PROTECTION - KEY QUESTION IN WIND VANE STEERING

This was my public posting to Don McIntyre about windvane striptease:

https://windpilot.com/blog/en/golden...-mcintyre-ggr/

Peter Foerthmann
Peter Foerthman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 04:30   #910
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 193
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Foerthman View Post
This was my public posting to Don McIntyre about windvane striptease:
https://windpilot.com/blog/en/golden...-mcintyre-ggr/
As always with Peter, a *really very lengthy* article... Being a satisified Windpilot user (but only experienced up to 35 kts so far) I'm mostly interested in how the Windpilots (and other products) hold in strong winds.

Such conditions are difficult to create in a 'controlled test setup' like for e.g. anchors, and thus I find the following statement from Abilash almost at the end of the blog post interesting:

>>Having sailed my boat solo and exclusively with WindPilot for over 12000 nm, this is what I have to say:-

(a) The construction is very robust and simple. It just doesnít seem there is anything that could fail unless you intentionally tried to destroy it, other than the control lines. I did have a link rod failure but that happened after almost 11000 nm in some real bad conditions. Replacing it in gale force conditions and in rough weather was not a very difficult affair.

(b) WindPilot mountings are perfect and they help make a very solid connection with the boat. Thanks to this the WindPilot sits firmly and steers the boat without any problem

(c) The installation is a straightforward affair. The tuning is very simple (and thanks for taking me through it at each step). And, as I discovered, if you want to play around, there is a lot of scope for that too!

(d) Even after almost 3 months continuously at sea, there were no rust streaks, creaking etc etc

(e) At one point, I wondered if I was the skipper or if it was WindPilot, because I rarely got to touch the tiller.

(f) My boat suffered violent knockdowns in a very bad storm on 21 Sep. Almost everything standing above deck was wiped out. The only piece of equipment that remained untouched was the WindPilot. It came through the storm and knockdowns almost untouched! I think one huge reason for this could be the fact that the blade is not restricted in its movement to either side.<<
blu3534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 04:42   #911
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 24,179
Images: 2
pirate Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

How the hell did you manage a knockdown in 35kts.. to much sail.. or beam too in a big sea..???
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 04:55   #912
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3534 View Post
It came through the storm and knockdowns almost untouched! I think one huge reason for this could be the fact that the blade is not restricted in its movement to either side.<<
This is THE key point. All traditional Windvane systems have "Shearpins" or "Safetytubes". Both, traditional Pendulum systems and Auxillary rudder systems have these, because they must.

- Monitor: has that tube
- Aries: has a similar device
- Hydrovane: has a pin which holds the auxiallary rudder

These have been all been regularly failing on the Monitor and the Hydrovane in the more challenging conditions of the GGR. Not on the Aries yet. Perhaps lucky, perhaps a stronger shear pin.

The point is: It is very hard to size that pin/tube correctly. Too weak, it breaks too early. Too strong, something else breaks - maybe the pendulum or auxillary rudder itself breaks, or the frame/mount breaks, or it tears right off the stern!


The Windpilot is different. It's a more modern design. As Abilash says "the blade is not restricted in its movement to either side.". There is no frame for it to bash against and break...it just rotates right around when extreme things happen in big/bad waves.

This design is proving to be a critical advantage in storm conditions?!


It's true, Peter's post is long, but worth reading in full:

https://windpilot.com/blog/en/golden...-mcintyre-ggr/
oschonrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 05:47   #913
Registered User
 
funjohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Out cruising again (Currently Norway)
Boat: 37' aluminum pilothouse "Elements"
Posts: 2,334
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
How the hell did you manage a knockdown in 35kts.. to much sail.. or beam too in a big sea..???

That was a quote from Abilash in the Windpilot article and not from our blu3534

Matt
__________________
Youtube MJ sailing - Vlog
MJSailing.com - Written Blog
Rebuilt Aluminum Boat Over 2 Years... Now Back Cruising!
funjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 06:06   #914
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 24,179
Images: 2
pirate Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
That was a quote from Abilash in the Windpilot article and not from our blu3534

Matt
Ahh.. Okay apologies.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 06:22   #915
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not travelling
Boat: Catalina 36 Mk II
Posts: 901
Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim View Post
Isnít that was the safety tube is designed to do if the water paddle is struck by an object in the water? Or are we to presume it was a spontaneous component failure?
After our RTW I did a major rehab on our Monitor including taking out the safety tube. I was shocked to find that it was broken about 2/3 of the way through. You could not see that there was any problem at all until you took the tube out of the unit. I don't think we had hit anything, at least anything substantial, with it since the rudder is pretty well protected by the boat rudder. i wonder if it is just a fatigue thing since the vane is operating under pressure constantly moving back and forth gazillions of times?
__________________

__________________
Purchased a Catalina 36 MkII (Sept 2018). Won't get to sail it until next spring.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
race

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good News / Bad News Alexei Monohull Sailboats 7 23-11-2009 02:09
good news/bad news in Bradenton Beach salty_dog_68 Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 1 31-05-2008 22:01

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.