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Old 07-11-2018, 04:03   #766
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pirate Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Thats the N Atlantic in winter for ya.. not for the faint hearted and quick to sort the wheat from the chaff..
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:29   #767
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Perhaps the GGR is under so much criticism that they are becoming more flexible....if that's the appropriate word.
So much? One post here and some Italian.. and as said before compared to Route du Rhum they've done far better
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:25   #768
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by ilenart View Post
Interesting comparison. Reading about the Route du Rhum, "...the transat of freedom: monohulls and multihulls were mixed without class divisions and without size restrictions...". Looks like just about anything allowed with 60ft boats and all the electronic aids and outside weather routing you can afford. Looking at the history we have:
  • 1978 - French skipper Alain Colas was lost at sea;
  • 1982 - There were 19 retirements including Ian Johnston on his trimaran Rennie (capsized) and Jean-Yves Terlain on Gauthier III (dismasted);
  • 1986 - Royal, a 26-metre maxi catamaran, capsized in a storm and Loïc Caradec was lost at sea;
  • 1994 - Cherbourg Technologies skippered by Halvard Mabire lost its keel and turned over. Mabire was recovered after 10 hours – his boat sank 10 days later;
  • 2002 - The seventh edition was marked by the passage of a very deep depression that caused havoc with the ORMA multihulls. Michel Desjoyeaux (Giant), Marc Guillemot (Biscuits La Trinitaine) and Lalou Roucayrol (Banque Populaire) were the only three to finish of the 18 starters;

Looking at the news of the latest race the headlines include hull delamination, yachts capsizing, dismasting, steering problems, etc etc.

Quite frankly; despite the larger boats, technology and outside assistance, it sounds pretty similar to the GGR. Looks like the main difference is that you need to be a millionaire (or billionaire?) to successfuly compete.

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The yacht that capsized on Route du Rhum was a multihull not a monohull and has capsized due to breakage on one of the amas. This year they had 60k gusts and with the wind on the nose, not downwind.

You are right these are top racing machines where the balance between weight and boat strength is delicate. If the boat is top heavy they don't win, if it is not strong enough they will break.

Not the case with the boats on the Golden Globe Race that are heavy slow boats and the organizers expected them to be able to finish the circumnavigation without major problems.

Even so and contrary to the Golden Globe Race on this transat no monohull was rolled, no skipper was seriously injured and no assistance was needed or demanded by any monohull skipper. It is good to remember that there were 90 monohulls on the race versus the initial 18 on the Golden Globe race.

And what comparison is that with several Route du Rhum from 40 years ago till 16 years ago? On those races all together raced many hundreds of boats and even so what you have to show are a single monohull capsized due to a lost keel and many multihulls capsized as well as multihull sailors lost overboard?

Regarding the ORMA 60 trimarans that race lead to the substitution of those boats, considered dangerous for solo racing, for the Mod 70, more safe. But we are talking about monohulls, not multihulls and if something you can see along those 40 years was the increasing on the demands of safety namely on the IMOCA and 40class boats.

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Old 07-11-2018, 14:23   #769
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

One of the latest news releases from the Route du Rhum states:

In the Rhum Mono fleet eight boats are currently racing with the leader, Sidney Gavignet on Café Joyeux, now heading south about 270 miles west of Cape Finisterre.

https://www.routedurhum.com/en/news/610

So, out of 90 monohulls only 9% are currently racing. Presumably the other 82 are still in port, which apparently the race rules allow. Based on this, the GGR is doing fine, with 8 boats or 44% of the fleet still racing.

And remember, the Route du Rhum has been going for 3 days and 8 hours, compared to 129 days and 11 hours for the GGR.

Note that my main point in highlighting the problems and issues with the Rhum du Rhum (which sounds like a great race and good on everyone competing) is too point out the folly of criticising the GGR as "...madness and that these boats, this size,are not safe to sail on the Austral ocean on big latitudes." when larger more modern yachts in single handed racing have just as many issues and problems.

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Old 07-11-2018, 22:10   #770
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Yeah, now I've never been down there but I thought it was more a matter of spending time in the Southern Ocean, or at least pretty close to it, with any size boat...
I keep thinking of "Godforsaken Sea" when I hear about their problems....
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:37   #771
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

If I understand correctly, JLVDH is thinking of carrying on.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:34   #772
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilenart View Post
One of the latest news releases from the Route du Rhum states:

In the Rhum Mono fleet eight boats are currently racing with the leader, Sidney Gavignet on Café Joyeux, now heading south about 270 miles west of Cape Finisterre.

https://www.routedurhum.com/en/news/610

So, out of 90 monohulls only 9% are currently racing. Presumably the other 82 are still in port, which apparently the race rules allow. Based on this, the GGR is doing fine, with 8 boats or 44% of the fleet still racing.

And remember, the Route du Rhum has been going for 3 days and 8 hours, compared to 129 days and 11 hours for the GGR.

Note that my main point in highlighting the problems and issues with the Rhum du Rhum (which sounds like a great race and good on everyone competing) is too point out the folly of criticising the GGR as "...madness and that these boats, this size,are not safe to sail on the Austral ocean on big latitudes." when larger more modern yachts in single handed racing have just as many issues and problems.

Ilenart
I hope that comment is not intentionally misleading but is born out of ignorance regarding that race. The boats that are referred on that "new" regards, as it is clearly stated, the RHUM MONO CLASS and not all monohull classes in the race. There is also the IMOCA class and the CLASS40 that is by far the one that has more boats racing.

The RHUM MONO CLASS is constituted mostly by older racers, most of them 50fters and some really old racers and also the less experienced sailors. It is the class that has by far more abandons.

But the point here is not abandoning the race (they have abandoned by many reason) but the safety of the boat and the sailor when they decide to abandon the race and till now, contrary to the Golden Globe Race, all monohull that have abandoned the race have done so by their own means and no rescue or help was asked.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:53   #773
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pirate Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I hope that comment is not intentionally misleading but is born out of ignorance regarding that race. The boats that are referred on that "new" regards, as it is clearly stated, the RHUM MONO CLASS and not all monohull classes in the race. There is also the IMOCA class and the CLASS40 that is by far the one that has more boats racing.

The RHUM MONO CLASS is constituted mostly by older racers, most of them 50fters and some really old racers and also the less experienced sailors. It is the class that has by far more abandons.

But the point here is not abandoning the race (they have abandoned by many reason) but the safety of the boat and the sailor when they decide to abandon the race and till now, contrary to the Golden Globe Race, all monohull that have abandoned the race have done so by their own means and no rescue or help was asked.
Well they are a lot closer to shore..
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Old 08-11-2018, 13:16   #774
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by Methersgate View Post
If I understand correctly, JLVDH is thinking of carrying on.


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Old 08-11-2018, 21:20   #775
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I hope that comment is not intentionally misleading but is born out of ignorance regarding that race. The boats that are referred on that "new" regards, as it is clearly stated, the RHUM MONO CLASS and not all monohull classes in the race. There is also the IMOCA class and the CLASS40 that is by far the one that has more boats racing.

The RHUM MONO CLASS is constituted mostly by older racers, most of them 50fters and some really old racers and also the less experienced sailors. It is the class that has by far more abandons.

But the point here is not abandoning the race (they have abandoned by many reason) but the safety of the boat and the sailor when they decide to abandon the race and till now, contrary to the Golden Globe Race, all monohull that have abandoned the race have done so by their own means and no rescue or help was asked.
Apologies if my post includes inaccuracies, my interest is in the GGR, rather than the Route du Rhum. Please feel free to quote how many boats have retired vs how many have continued. However my main point still stands; its hard to criticize the GGR in isolation when so many other yacht races have problems and issues. The Route du Rhum is just one example, the Clipper Round the Race and Volvo Ocean races all had fatalities in the last year, despite larger boats and newer technology. Oceanic yacht racing is one of the most dangerous sports in the world. From what I can see the GGR has made the race as safe as possible, including utilising the latest communication and satellite technology, plus emphasising self sufficiency.

Regarding the size of the GGR yachts they are no smaller than yachts that regularly race in the Sydney to Hobart. If you look at the statistics of the 1998 Sydney to Hobart all the yachts with fatalities and / or were rolled were larger than 39ft. Yet the yacht that won the race was 35ft. A Brolga 33 also did very well, completing the race and winning her class. My own yacht design (a UFO 34) was participating and they successfully retired to Eden with no major issues.

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Old 09-11-2018, 13:51   #776
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilenart;2758142...
Regarding the size of the GGR yachts they are no smaller than yachts that regularly race in the Sydney to Hobart. If you look at the statistics of the 1998 Sydney to Hobart all the yachts with fatalities and / or were rolled were larger than 39ft. Yet the yacht that won the race was 35ft. A Brolga 33 also did very well, completing the race and winning her class. My own yacht design (a UFO 34) was participating and they successfully retired to Eden with no major issues.

Ilenart
Apology accepted, I am sure you did not know that that category is just a small part of monohulls racing.

On Sydney hobart they have access to meteorology and the race is an coastal race. If you care to look you will see that in what regards retirements in years of bad weather there are more retirements of boats with less than 40ft than with boats over 40ft and when that happens with bigger boats it is not because they cannot handle the conditions but because they have breakage, many times on the sails. Also, there are few boats with less than 36ft.

On a coastal race like the Sydney Hobart with normal access to meteorology smaller boats can and in some cases retire, seeking shelter on ports on the coast, if the conditions are considered by the crew too dangerous.

That is a thing they cannot do at the middle of the austral ocean with the nearest coast at many hundreds of miles and besides, without meteo access, they cannot know if the conditions ahead are too dangerous or what course they should take to avoid them.
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Old 09-11-2018, 14:11   #777
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

From Zoiberg on another site who gleaned it from a ham radio site...
'"I had plenty of time to think about my situation during these four days of escaping the storm (220 miles lost to the North)." My mast is now extremely precarious due to my capsize. If I stop to make a repair, it will be only temporary. For Matmut to continue sailing, it will need more or less long to change to a new mast.

So I decided, to save my soul (dixit Moitessier), to continue my route non-stop and head for Les Sables d'Olonne.

As soon as the sea will allow it I will climb in the mast to secure it as best as possible with what I can use onboard. If I get dismasted, I have like all competitors a jury rig that will allow me to reach a port in full autonomy. I am no longer in racing mode but in safe mode. This is not the first time I will attempt to bring home a damaged boat. And if by miracle I get to Les Sables d'Olonne, I do not care about the ranking, at least I will have tried. I cross my fingers and thank all those who help me in this adventure."
Read more at Golden Globe Race - Page 35'
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Old 09-11-2018, 14:33   #778
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

JL Vandenheede situation ~


FRENCH UPDATE 09/10/2018 : #GGR2018


Yesterday's day was marked by the decision of Jean-Luc van den heede to continue his road, cost it. A reasonable choice ...for this great sailor, a crazy choice for most of us... but the Dean of the race has all the experience necessary to imagine being able to finish, even if he evokes a miracle to bring him back to the sands of olonne . If this decision forces respect, it is that it intervenes after 130 days of sea, 130 days where, continuously, Jean-Luc has stopped moving, adjusting his sails, listening to his radio to anticipate the Weather, to dedicate every second to this sixth round of the world as if it was the first, with a freshness that many men of his age (73 years) may envy him.
It would have been tempting (but surely not easy) to give up the purity of an absolute gesture that consists of walking around the sea without stopping, without assistance and without modern means of navigation, to find the time of a halt the comfort of A civilization that would have offered Jean-Luc all the help he needs. But here, to navigate normally, it is the whole mast that should be changed, and any repair, even assisted, would be only summary, provisional. The Skipper of the rustler 36 matmut therefore chose the path of autonomy, " to save his soul he said in the wake of moitessier, even though it is not the same motivations that animate him.
He's already been on the mast twice since yesterday to evaluate things to do, with the means of the edge. And if an adventure he had to bow, he knows that he is able to establish a fortune rigging that can allow him to bring his wounded boat back to autonomy... After 130 days so, the longest period he has Never spent at sea (his record around the world against winds and dominant currents - still valid - having taken 122 days), he continues to make the choice of audacity, adventure, to face, once again, To the unknown, knowing that he can count on his immense experience. It is a crazy choice, as much as immensely reasonable, imposed by an out-of-standard situation, that of an exceptional sailor who wants to go to the end of his adventure, even on a wounded boat, in the heart of an ocean as
This immense will, he shares it with all the skippers of the race who, like him since 1 July, continue the most difficult journey that is given to a sailor to face, a tour of the world, an absolute loop , the longest distance we oppose the earth's roundness. Mark Slats, uku randmaa, Susie Goodall, istvan the, tapio lehtinen but also Mark Sinclair and Igor Zaretstiy... all those sailors still running, not forgetting those that the sea didn't let go, do or have demonstrated An exceptional mental force. So the road is still long on this golden globe race 2018 and the chances of arriving are for all difficult to evaluate. But all try, with the faith in the heart, all think they can do it, that it's possible... and even after 130 days of sea, it's hard to get tired of it.
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Old 09-11-2018, 15:17   #779
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

Been away and just catching up with the news. I did get to see Tapio briefly as we steamed past doing some training.

Noticed his top starboard spreader was a bit droopy, hopefully it is well lashed to the shroud.

VdH's mast damage is very interesting. I did some calculations for a freinds mast and noticed without extra reinforcement the tang bolt would pull through the aluminum mast well before the shroud or tang broke, but I understood his mast was sleeved internally up above the spreader and he also had doubler plates outside the tang bolt to put the bolt in double shear. Maybe we are now getting good data on the stresses a capsize puts on the mast. Prehaps it is the lower shrouds that take most of the load?

It will be facinating to see how he repairs it. Seems like he is still making good progress. Click image for larger version

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Old 10-11-2018, 18:54   #780
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Re: The GGR race, discussion and news

I love the way Tapio uses the foremost forestay for a light air genoa/drifter or a storm jib, as you can see lashed to the lifelines.

Also I reviewed the video Don and Robin put up earlier on VDH's old rig. Seems like the internal sleeve stopped before the lower tangs. The external link plate on the tang is riveted to the mast and would offer a lot of support to the tang, but rivets are fairly weak in shear and a strong shock load could conceivably break them and let the tang bolt pull through the mast. Surprised they didn't run the internal sleeve up past the lower spreaders.

Another factor is both lowers go onto the same tang bolt, and the short lowers have very little stretch, so shock loadings would be higher. Made worse if he used dyform wire, or had slack rigging.
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