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Old 04-09-2016, 23:33   #1
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The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Sailing sea Drones are here. What was seen as something to be worried about in the future, sea Drones are being used by "scientists" in the northern waters off Alaska.

No consideration of ColRegs. No adherence to safe international navigation laws. It's all OK because they are tracking water Temps etc.

Another start up, financed by one of the founders of Google is going full steam ahead with out caring about the law. Much like Uber has done in cities around the world.

Now we have to watch out for these things while off shoring.




http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/te...data.html?_r=0
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:51   #2
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Interesting to see you have such a strongly negative bias against a technology intended to benefit humanity by increasing our knowledge and understanding of our environment and the planet we live on.

Perhaps since you eschew the work of "scientists" you live in a cabin in the woods without electricity? Oh wait, you're clacking away on a computer keyboard.

Despite your presumption to the contrary, I didn't see mention in the article about how Saildrone had specifically given "No consideration of ColRegs. No adherence to safe international navigation laws."

Do you really think people like Eric Schmidt or the other VCs who have dumped $16.5 into this Saildrone project are a bunch of idiots? How about DARPA, who are well on their way to completing sea trials of the ACTUV?

Per a March 2015 article posted at navaldrones.com -

"To help augment ACTUV’s capability for sensing and classifying other vessels, and to reduce reliance on radar as ACTUV’s primary sensor, DARPA has issued a Request for Information (RFI) about currently available technologies that could help ACTUV and future unmanned surface vessels perceive and classify nearby ships and other objects. DARPA is specifically interested in sensor systems and image-processing hardware and software that use passive (electro-optical/infrared, or EO/IR) or non-radar active (e.g., light detection and ranging, or LIDAR) approaches. The goal is to develop reliable, robust onboard systems that could detect and track nearby surface vessels and potential navigation hazards, classify those objects’ characteristics and provide input to ACTUV’s autonomy software to facilitate correct COLREGs behaviors."

Have the builders of the Saildrone really and truly given "No consideration of ColRegs"? I see a sailboat that is painted bright orange with navigation lights. Does it have AIS? A webcam to keep a proper lookout? Nothing in the article you link to says it doesn't.

PS What the heck is "off shoring"?
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:57   #3
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Oh goody, I'm sure that once they get the bugs out of all that stuff it will appear in the yacht instrumentation and I can go below and watch videos instead of sitting in the cockpit in the wind and sun and keeping watch, might even get the occasional nap in.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:37   #4
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Oh look, it's got AIS. Maybe they are CF members since everyone here knows you can't go safely off shoring without AIS.

Vessel details for: SAILDRONE 126 (Sailing Vessel) - MMSI 338179254, Call Sign Registered in USA | AIS Marine Traffic

And what is this I see on the company's inforgraphic? Number 4? Wide angled cameras? Huh, go figure.

Saildrone Data Capabiities

You know collision avoidance is a two way street. Saildrone has as much to gain by not crashing into you as you to them. Frankly, I don't understand why a person would presume that someone building a million dollars worth of robotic sailboat wouldn't want to keep their investment safe.

Meanwhile, Google isn't dumping billions into self-driving cars because humans have a flawless track record of avoiding collisions now do they?
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:21   #5
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Too early for rumpswab sarcasm.
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:30   #6
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

I see lots of scientific sensors on the diagram but only the cameras could be used for collision avoidance. Not to worry though, since none of the cameras are facing aft it is likely to be run down from astern by a large megayacht with the crew below watching TV, sleeping, or anything but paying attention to where they were going. Last year in the Bahamas I was almost run down by a megayacht with no one at the helm. Only my evasive action saved us from being run over from astern.
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:32   #7
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

This sounds like a continuation of the hysteria that the media has created in the public over aviation drones.
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:37   #8
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Wood.
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Old 05-09-2016, 04:44   #9
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

GoneWalkabout popped an eyeball at that lost autonomous surfboard last week.
Very funny stuff.

No doubt she has plenty of un-off-shoring supporters poppin at driverless cars and... wait for it... heavens to mercitroid... driverless trains, trucks, busses with old people on board. A train MUST have a driver to steer it on the rails!

But when she can get a pizza delivered by drone thats a different matter!

Just imagine buying a boat part and screaming into the phone: "Amazon your bloody drone is LATE!



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Old 05-09-2016, 04:44   #10
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

I agree that this is fascinating and useful technology.

I also agree that it creates collision risks and does not comply with COLREGS!

COLREGS don't contemplate drone vessels. There will have to be a revision to them -- after proper technology has been thought through.

Meanwhile we will muck along. One nation's coast guard gave an opinion that legally, drone sailboats are nothing but buoys, and it's ok to use them without special measures. I say bullocks, but that's probably the best we can do at the moment.

They key is figuring out how these devices should behave in order to reduce risks to acceptable levels.

You can imagine all kinds of things. A really drastic way to deal with it, but effective, would be to require the drone to be able to detect collision courses and maneuver according to the COLREGS, and to scuttle itself if a collision course is still unresolved at some given distance.
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:01   #11
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post

But when she can get a pizza delivered by drone thats a different matter!
Wait a minute! Are you saying it will bring me a fresh hot pizza TO THE BOAT OUT ON WATER? Will it bring some cold beer to go along with it?

This is serious stuff
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:23   #12
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Wait a minute! Are you saying it will bring me a fresh hot pizza TO THE BOAT OUT ON WATER? Will it bring some cold beer to go along with it?

This is serious stuff
Yes!!!!
It will deliver right to your saloon table......
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:41   #13
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Interesting stuff.

The fact is, "drones" are already here. Commercial fishing boats and large cargo ships are known to flip on the autopilot and leave the bridge. I'm not saying they're supposed to, or that all do, but anecdotally, it happens. I've personally seen the aftermath of a collision between a steel fishing boat and a 40-ish foot sportfisher that happened just off Gloucester in daylight, with good visibility. Despite their denials, you'll never convince me there was anybody standing watch on either bridge.

Personally, I'd rather go up against that sailing drone. At least it was designed to be unmanned.
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:55   #14
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I agree that this is fascinating and useful technology.

I also agree that it creates collision risks and does not comply with COLREGS!
Of course every additional vessel creates a collision risk...

The proper question (form a moral point of view) is of course if this creates an additional unacceptable risk. The law generally does not require that one eliminates risk, just that one takes enough due diligence to reduce risk to significantly below the risk threshold of a reasonable person. If the makers of the sail drone achieve that I do not have a problem with that.

I have a question: AFAIK it is not mentioned anywhere in the COLREGs that the required "lookout by sight and hearing" needs to be performed by a human being. I think the a case can be made that an automated system that performs as well as a human in situational awareness and collision avoidance is not in conflict with the COLREGs.
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Old 05-09-2016, 06:45   #15
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Re: The Drones are here and ignoring regs

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Wait a minute! Are you saying it will bring me a fresh hot pizza TO THE BOAT OUT ON WATER? Will it bring some cold beer to go along with it?

This is serious stuff
Yes!

You can refill that lard-ass at anchor (soon)... But I can't see where the Garlic Bread and Coke goes??????????????

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