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Old 25-07-2014, 19:05   #121
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

minaret, we need you to comment on this last picture of a Beneteau rudder tube.
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Old 25-07-2014, 19:44   #122
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

I wonder where come from this tubes, i doubt they are rudder post since they are to long in my eyes, could be prop shaft stern tubes???
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Old 25-07-2014, 19:47   #123
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Similar recent problem on a Malo 45, with a partial skeg rudder. Malo are not exactly known for under building the hull.

http://blog.mailasail.com/simanderal/342



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Old 25-07-2014, 20:09   #124
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

There is an interesting article on Profession Boat Builder about watertight compartments, The Unsinkable - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine

Later,
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Old 25-07-2014, 20:16   #125
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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I wonder where come from this tubes, i doubt they are rudder post since they are to long in my eyes, could be prop shaft stern tubes???
You are right. There is no outside resin casing of any kind although the left hand tube looks like there is resin in the center, the right hand tube looks like its wound on cardboard. I could be wrong but on second thought I think someone is pulling our chains.
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Old 25-07-2014, 21:27   #126
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
But you are just making an assumption that the builders aren't already "overbuilding". It is standard design in lots of structural engineering design to have safety factors up to 50% over what is needed.

If you start designing for impacts when do you stop as to what you are factoring in being hit (logs, whales, super tanks, Africa)?
Most designers use safety factors around 3 (300%) in keels, rudders, rigging and hull. They are all experiencing extreme cyclic loading. Don't remember the excact numbers right now but we are talking about some million cycles at 30% of calculated max loads would lessen the strength of grp down to 60% of the original. For serious ocean cruising some hull scantlings reguire increasing the material thicknesses for additional some 10 to 30%.

In this particular case the rudder was "overbuild" compared to rudder post. In case you hit the Africa it should be the rudder to fail, not the post.
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Old 25-07-2014, 22:45   #127
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Most designers use safety factors around 3 (300%) in keels, rudders, rigging and hull. They are all experiencing extreme cyclic loading. Don't remember the excact numbers right now but we are talking about some million cycles at 30% of calculated max loads would lessen the strength of grp down to 60% of the original. For serious ocean cruising some hull scantlings reguire increasing the material thicknesses for additional some 10 to 30%.
Sometimes the designers get it wrong. It took a concerted effort by a number of very influential people to get changes made to scantlings on the Open 60 boats and only happened after quite a few keels fell off or were severely damaged. Whether they have it right this time only time will tell.

One problem with boats is that there is no mandatory recall mechanism, as there is in automobiles, so manufacturers just seem to ignore a problem.
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Old 26-07-2014, 01:00   #128
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
minaret, we need you to comment on this last picture of a Beneteau rudder tube.


This looks like standard filament wound fiberglass tubing. Seems too long for a rudder post in most boats. Totally inadequate for that purpose, though it does come in different wall thickness. This does seem quite dry, which is common for filament wound tube. Even seen lots of pinhole leaks. I doubt this was built by the boat manufacturer, they probably buy large quantities of stock. It should be heavily glassed over on install, but here it appears not to have been.
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Old 26-07-2014, 09:11   #129
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

as i recall when my owner read the original postings tome that there were modifications to stern and transom of blue pearl done by someone not factory.
this was a problem big enough to have been written about prior to the departure across a large body of water.
i am wondering why , now, are folks confused about why the boat sank and what to do to beneteau about this problem which, as i recall, isnt a beneteau problem , but a boat yard employee (or not) aftermarket modification problem??? please enlighten me, as i am a mere kitty and i dont want my boat to have any problems like this one.
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Old 26-07-2014, 09:32   #130
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post

(...) i dont want my boat to have any problems like this one.
You must choose.

Different boat. Different boatyard.

Our choices influence our outcomes.

b.
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Old 26-07-2014, 15:18   #131
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
zboss:

Golly, do you know what caused that damage? Merely repeated cycles? A blow?

Ann
They were unable to determine a fault and bene would not accept responsibility. Its my understanding, from my friend, that on that years beneteau's the cutlass bearing sticks out and is fairly unprotected.

I'm only speculating but I imagine that having a line pull on that or maybe having a lifting strop in the wrong location might put to much pressure and cause some damage.
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Old 27-07-2014, 13:51   #132
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Considering the amount of publicity they are probably getting, I am surprised they flat out rejected any responsibility.


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Old 27-07-2014, 13:56   #133
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

What is at stake for Beneteau is their reputation vs. new boat sales profit. Keeping quiet allows them wiggle room, and maybe head in the sand time, too.

Ann
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Old 27-07-2014, 22:24   #134
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

This was settled at least 2 years ago... he ended up buying the new tubes, which are just like the old tubes, installed them himself and has been trouble free since.
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Old 28-07-2014, 02:57   #135
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
as i recall when my owner read the original postings tome that there were modifications to stern and transom of blue pearl done by someone not factory.
this was a problem big enough to have been written about prior to the departure across a large body of water.
i am wondering why , now, are folks confused about why the boat sank and what to do to beneteau about this problem which, as i recall, isnt a beneteau problem , but a boat yard employee (or not) aftermarket modification problem??? please enlighten me, as i am a mere kitty and i dont want my boat to have any problems like this one.
Are we talking about the same boat?
There is a racing boat called the Blue Pearl that features in Sail magazines - maybe this is where the confusion lies. It is docked in the UK and also has a blue hull.

The Blue Pearl that sank had NO modifications to either the stern or transom.

The Keel was strengthened with epoxy as a precaution not because there was something wrong - the bolts were secure.

Given that the keel came off a Beneteau (Cheeki Rafiki) - this was in hindsight a wise move. A keel coming off is catastrophic and left the sailors no time to launch a life raft.

The reason the boat sank was different and we had about an hour. The bilge pumps were rapidly overwhelmed. But that hour was vital. In my view - those poor guys on Cheeki Rafiki never had that vital hour.

Even launching a life raft in the conditions took time. It landed upside down and it is a skill to get it righted in 40k of wind and 30ft waves. Not only that the waves have to be timed to allow you to jump into the raft successfully.

We were lucky to get out alive. Like a previous post said - the boat may not have coped but we did. This was due to Len's experience in sea rescue and his calm approach.

Thank you to all those that have studied the video and given us more insight into what happened and why. It is much appreciated.

Lisa
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