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Old 05-11-2015, 16:47   #181
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
Yes I do. To doodle around the Bahamas one first has to get there. Because the Bahamas are close by, many take that passage lightly, but I remember Revenoc, a much more seaworthy boat than a catamaran, lost with all hands.

Like I said, despite harbors filled with them, I don't think unballasted craft are a good choice for offshore sailing. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!

Paul
Yes, 70kt gales forming over 3 days and traveling into the gulf stream are as unpredictable and uncommunicated now as they were in 1957. It is a wonder anyone today can get the 50nm to the Bahamas without being wiped out. BTW, Revenoc was traveling Key West to Miami - 3X the distance (and time) than Miami-Bimini.

And you still have not addressed the issue of "seaworthy design" boats being lost at sea. You even continue to post examples of them - while saying that a loss of other boats bear out their poor design.

You do realize that many power boats also go to the Bahamas and elsewhere. Some around the world. I don't know of any with ballast.

Opinions are one thing; a lack of factual understanding is something different.

You seem to have confused those two.

Mark
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Old 05-11-2015, 18:01   #182
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Getting back to the issue at hand. I agree with those that have posted that it was the upper shelf letting go that caused the loss of the boat .It appears that the distance from the hull to the top bearing is quite short requiring a very strong upper bearing and support. On my PDQ 36 the aft locker has a shelf that fills the locker completely and the shaft comes up through the middle creating excellent strength .
The upper bearing support should never fail

What a magnificent job of preparation the skipper and his crew have done to have this ordeal end as it did . I hope to meet them some day.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:48   #183
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
..., I don't think unballasted craft are a good choice for offshore sailing. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.
You'll have to enlighten me as to why ballast has anything to do with rudder failure.
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Old 11-11-2015, 19:59   #184
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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I admire them for overcoming adversity and continuing to sail. Getting back up after life knocks you down can be very difficult, sometimes extraordinarily so, and doing so is to be commended.

It is the choice of boat that I find troubling. With the previous boat, although any sailor could tell at a glance that vessel was a very poor choice, perhaps they were inexperienced. It happens. But they gained a lifetime's experience in one night. And then...make another poor choice? Someone should call PETA and save that poor dog!



Well, there we must choose to disagree. A bad practice is one which may be engaged in many times without coming to harm, but if persisted in, will certainly come to a bad end. That harbors are filled with multihulls does not, in my opinion, for one moment make them seaworthy craft.

And please, call me Paul.

Paul
Another opinion from an old man 64 with an old boat Bounty 1962. I spent two weeks in 2009 on a charterd Beneteu 50 in the BVIs. My opinion as a 35 year sailor and civil engineer is the Beneteu is a floating trailer house that sails like crap. The boat you want or the boat you can afford doesn't have anything to do with the boat that is suitable for the trip.
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Old 17-11-2015, 16:18   #185
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Oh, to be 64 again!

Paul
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Old 21-11-2015, 18:50   #186
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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You do realize that many power boats also go to the Bahamas and elsewhere. Some around the world. I don't know of any with ballast.
Of course they have ballast. At least the ones made to cross oceans do.
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Tank testing for ideal hull shape and careful attention to weight distribution are crucial to the seakeeping characteristics of each Nordhavn. To minimize the danger of a knockdown and enhance their righting ability, all Nordhavns are ballasted with an amount that is approximately l0% of their unloaded displacement.
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Old 21-11-2015, 20:16   #187
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Of course they have ballast. At least the ones made to cross oceans do.
An ocean crossing powerboat with no ballast?
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Old 22-11-2015, 06:33   #188
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

The hijacking of the thread by Paul is ridiculous. Lets move on.
Getting back to the Oceanis 42 utube is there anyone that can elaborate on it further? I'm not a boat builder etc and that video is shocking, the strength of that veneer cant be what the integrity of the rudder depends on? Surely??? Does anyone know more about these rudder set ups?

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Old 22-11-2015, 07:58   #189
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
Yes I do. To doodle around the Bahamas one first has to get there. Because the Bahamas are close by, many take that passage lightly, but I remember Revenoc, a much more seaworthy boat than a catamaran, lost with all hands.

Like I said, despite harbors filled with them, I don't think unballasted craft are a good choice for offshore sailing. That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it!
Paul
Yes , you can stick to whatever you want but it seems that your basic believe is that old designs are more seaworthy than new ones, being them cats or monohulls.

Revenoc was a 42ft relatively light centerboarder, narrow , with little hull form stability, with a relatively low B/D ratio (30%), considered the small hull form stability,the swallow draft (4'2'') and the non bulbed keel .

A boat like the Oceanis 50 has a much bigger stability and if in good condition it will be more seaworthy. A modern cat with 42 ft will have probably a bigger stability then the Oceanis 50 and an incomparable bigger one that old 42ft. That's true that if capsized a cat cannot re-right itself and they rely on the their bigger stability to prevent that.

But regarding Revenoc, given the data from that old S&S design, I very much doubt that the boat had a decent AVS and that was probably what lead to his sinking:

Not much stability to offer face breaking waves, the boat capsized and the low AVS prevented it from returning to its feet. Of course I am speculating, but it is an educated one. The fact is that Revenoc sunk, with all hands lost.
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Old 09-04-2016, 20:04   #190
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

I just googled the boat, because i was out sailing tonight on the River Clyde, and someone asked me what it was like to sail from the USA, I told them one bad thing, was a boat that left a few weeks ahead of me, sunk. I believe I saw your boat in Falmouth harbrour Antigua in about march 2014, I then was in Bermuda when you your wife crew and dog were brought in. I left Bermuda the following month, on a Southern Cross 31, and sailed it to Castle Bay Island of Barra, scotland. I think I had the more suitable weather, In my opinion, you should only leave that side of the Atlantic, when the birds leave.

I was many years in the merchant navy, and grew up around boats, but I dont know that much about the construction side of things. I did though once, look at a beneteau 35, which i was very keen on. I explained to the broker in the USA that I would be taking it to the UK, he told me ' that boat does not have the component structure to take on the Atlantic' at that time, i had an RYA yachtsmaster giving me advice, who was going to go on the run with me, and make some money, he advised me very stroingly that the boat was good for it. I took the advice of the US broker, and didnt buy the boat. Ten years later I crossed solo, on the Southern Cross.

Benetaus have been interfered with by accountants, its all down to costs, they build them with as little materials as possible, as thin a standing rig as possible, they save money everywhere, but they want to produce as big a boat as they can, for as little as they can, and buyers like the space and luxury, which is ideal for a marina, but I honestly would sooner have my 31 foot Southern Cross at sea, than a forty plus foot Benetau.

Very sorry for your loss. I know in Bermuda they helped you out, but it was nothing as to what you lost.
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Old 09-04-2016, 20:58   #191
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Re: The Blue Pearl Sinking

Thanks for the video.

Terrifying is the word that comes to mind.

I have never seen or heard of anything like that happening unless the rudder engaged a whale or a reef. Glad that you are safe.
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