Taleisin for sale

[StuM]

> Do you see what I am getting at?

He's selling his used running shoes for more than the cost of a new pair?

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Sure I see what your getting at although I'm not sure the Pardeys made themselves rich. These days everyone is an internet expert but ask yourself this question: How many of our forum experts has the balls and abilities to build a wooden boat from scratch 24 feet long and then sail it around the world double handed without any weather routing or grib files or whatever. All navigating from celestial only. No guide books written showing every anchorage and the GPS coordinates. No watermakers, fridges,solar panels or engines or 90% of the stuff people talk about on this forum.
So ya those Pardeys really did do some cool stuff that people still talk about to this day plus they wrote about it in some excellent books.
Yes there are lots of naysayers, there always are you know, for every winner there are thousands of losers.

Yes true, not rich as we know it in the commercial world.

And I agree with the rest of your post as well mate

[LBW399]

Originally Posted by StuM

> Do you see what I am getting at?

He's selling his used running shoes for more than the cost of a new pair?

Heh heh great to see some good 'ole dry humour

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

One thing is for sure - once sold the boat will break there hearts when (not if!) it ends up in the hands of someone who does not understand how much work and skill and knowledge is required to keep lots of wood in top condition.

I've read somewhere that they're interviewing potential buyers, presumably to make certain she gets a "proper" owner.



Here are some facts about the boat from the Pardeys' website...

TALEISIN
Designed for Lin and Larry by Lyle C Hess in 1977. Development of Seraffyn. Launched 10/ 31/1983. Length on deck 29′ 6″, waterline 27′ 6″, beam 10′ 9″, draft 5′ 3″, displacement for cruising 17,800. Racing displacement 16,400. Sail area – 740 square feet. Construction – Built by Lin and Larry, teak carvel planking over sawn black locust frames, bronze floors, bronze hanging knees. Solid teak decks, material cost $US 38,000 complete.

Material costs of US$38,000 in 1983 would be at least double that after twenty years, if not triple (have you bought a teak board lately?). If you add in the value of the hours and hours of work to build her, and the "cachet" of the Pardey personae, the asking price doesn't seem too out of line to me.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

Tripe definition; "Something discard able or of little worth"
such as
"for a small old enginless boat and that no one is ripped off by being stupid enough to buy a boat beacuse of the previous owners abilities"
"I think they learnt from the first one and put an engine in this one"


P.T. Barnum (spelling?) quote applies about someone being born every minute.

A 40 yr old wood boat sparsely outfitted, even in great condition, isn't worth much. If it wasn't for the name associated with it, you would be lucky to get $10k for it.


They just did it and celestial was the way everybody did it. No big deal. It's not a black art.


A price like that sounds like "entitlement" to me. Can't stand that.


I appreciate the fact that these are just other peoples opinions, and I mean the individuals no disrespect. But not everything that falls from our mouths is of great worth. Certainly not mine in any case. But I, like them , am entitled to my opinions. And I find some of these comments discardable and a few just plain unworthy. And it'd my bet that most of the commentors, good or bad have never been more than a hundred miles from land. These two people are at the top of our food chain and deserve some respect. They are in fact "entitled". They have earned that respect for accomplishing many of the dreams to which so many here aspire. So as as happened before you are not that taken with my choice of words, and I can see your point. But as you say, we all have our opinions, and we are who and how we are. At least I wasn't trying to be "witty" this time.

Most of those comments are filet minion (as opposed to tripe) for a newbie who read a few of their books and comes to the incorrect conclusion, that it's the perfect boat for them. Boat yards are full of broken dreams that people bought into not knowing what they were getting into.

This reminds me of a number of small buisness owners I've know who reach retirment age and want to sell the buisness. They have so much of thier heart and soul invested in it, that they put a crazy high price on it. In the situations, I've seen, one of two things happens:
- They get a naive person to come up with the cash (or a loan) to pay it. Then the buisness quickly sinks because they don't know what they are doing.
- The buisness slowly withers over 5-10 years as the owner has lost the desire to give it 100% because they are intent on moving to the next phase of thier life.

Maybe thier localized fame in the cruising commuity will have a true wooden boat afficiando come forward and keep it lovingly for another 50 years of cruising the 7 seas. I'll give 10-1 odds to any takers against that happening (not because I have any ill will towards these folks but just looking at it realistically).

[robert sailor]

Seems their first boat sold for a premium and from what I understand it is still in mint condition. What it will sell for might surprise many in this crowd that have never been exposed to something of high quality built by a real craftsman. This boat can not be compared to a current bleach bottle boat. (I can say that because I own one as well)

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

I'm thinking the only folks that should have the privilege of assessing the merit and value of the Pardey contribution to sailing should be the those who have actually sailed across an ocean. Every other daydreamer should just say thanks. I'm hoping it's not a health issue. I'm hoping they just got sick of listening to this sort of tripe.

(Edit)



Tripe definition; "Something discard able or of little worth"
such as
"for a small old enginless boat and that no one is ripped off by being stupid enough to buy a boat beacuse of the previous owners abilities"

And I find some of these comments discardable and a few just plain unworthy. And it'd my bet that most of the commentors, good or bad have never been more than a hundred miles from land.

Well then you should not have quoted me? because while you were cutting and pasting my quote at 2am you should have noted my signiture box that says... Notes on a Circumnavigation.
Consequently i have been more than a hundred miles from land. By your definition I have the 'right' to asses the Pardys sailing! Good grief! Are you serious? What gives anyone the right to asses someones contribution?

Further I was not commenting on the Pardys contribution to sailing I was commenting on the excessive price for an old junker. The price being so high that it can only have been put up by the deluded, or for the hope someone will pay too much due to the previous owners pedigree.

So slag me off, but get your facts right first.

And note this: i believe anyone who now takes an enginless boat on a round the world cruise without electricty for GPS, AIS and electronic charting is doing so in an UNSAFE and selfish manner. selfish because other users of the ocean now have an expectation that boats know where the hell they are acurately and display same on AIS.

[FSMike]

Anybody with boatbuilding experience got an estimate as to what it would cost to duplicate Taleisin today?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Material costs of US$38,000 in 1983 would be at least double that after twenty years, if not triple (have you bought a teak board lately?). If you add in the value of the hours and hours of work to build her, and the "cachet" of the Pardey personae, the asking price doesn't seem too out of line to me.

All this is quite true but try telling a potential buyer of your boat how many hours you invested in rebuilding and upgrading to justify selling them your boat at a price much, much higher than other similar or even better boats. Without the cachet that argument will go nowhere fast.

[boatman61]

Well.. I'd never heard of them before joining CF.. never read anything by them apart from the odd post they've made on here.. Like the video they just posted.. will I watch it..? Doubt it..
Who inspired me..? no one.. unless you can count the cool looking guy in his 40ft yawl approaching the Straits of Gib back in '66 who lowered his 'Duster' as we passed.. and I had to race from the bridge to the stern to lower the White Ensign to return the salute...
Remember thinking.. 'One day that'll be me..'

[svHannabel]

I have no idea what Taleisin is worth, but I'm fairly certain it will take a special buyer, no matter the price. Just as the Pardeys are special owners with some unique wants/needs/experiences.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Anybody with boatbuilding experience got an estimate as to what it would cost to duplicate Taleisin today?

Probably more than they are asking. But that's not the point. The replacement insurance value of my boat is over two million dollars, because that's what it would cost to build today from scratch. But the market value isn't even close to that.


I thought earlier from the single pic posted that the floor timbers were ply, but apparently they are bronze, as well as the hanging knees. This is a big deal, and would cost a fortune to replicate. However, there are also a number of time saving measures here, such as sawn frames and laid decks. She's a sweet old woody, for sure. But still an old woody.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Anybody with boatbuilding experience got an estimate as to what it would cost to duplicate Taleisin today?

A lot. Traditional boat building woods are expensive and the you need specialty wood workers.

But that has little to do with the price of used boats. For comparison, I just saw a news article about a mansion for sale in mid-town Detroit. It was built back in the haydays by a lumber tycoon. They claimed it would cost $4-5 million to reproduce. Current asking price is in the low $200k range because there is no market for it. It's too big and the people who could afford it don't want to live in the area (mid-town is actually an up and coming hip area but up and coming hipsters can't afford mansions).

[robert sailor]

I agree about market prices vs costs however you can't compare a home in Detroit to a sailboat. Housing prices are a direct reflection of the incomes in that particular area..areas that have high incomes have high real estate prices.

[ImaginaryNumber]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

I ran NZ$175,000 through Google's currency converter and it said that was about US$146,500.

I believe the advertisement specified US dollars.