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Old 15-01-2014, 15:18   #76
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Your making assumptions...that a work of art wood sailboat is worth less than a cheap production boat. Neither of us is qualified to make that assumption so both of us will just have to wait and see. The Pardeys were able to sell their first wood boat, a little 24 footer for enough money to buy 2 acres of water front property in New Zealand so they have some experience in this game.
Nothing wrong with making assumptions. The world would cease to function without them.

Mine are based on the asking prices advertised for wood boats (often with claims of imacculate condition), the tales of whoa from people I know who own them and the hassles with getting one insured.

There may be the statistical outlier who buys it because it is a work of beauty or more likely because of the name associated with it. I just wouldn't get my hopes up.
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Old 15-01-2014, 15:28   #77
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Originally Posted by anotherT34C View Post
As others have aluded, Taleisin is more properly a work of art, designed by a legend and hand built by a craftsman, not a purpose-built production yacht. Is she 'worth' $175K? I'd say she's worth whatever someone pays for her.

And if you think you can scribble 'art' and sell it for $$, I'd invite you to go and do so.

I hope they get what they're asking, and I hope the buyer is pleased with the purchase, but that's just me.
I think that was very well put. Nice post.
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Old 15-01-2014, 16:00   #78
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Originally Posted by Krogensailor View Post
I'm thinking the only folks that should have the privilege of assessing the merit and value of the Pardey contribution to sailing should be the those who have actually sailed across an ocean.
I thought we were talking about the value of an object and not the sailing merits of the owners.
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Old 15-01-2014, 19:18   #79
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Re: Taleisin for sale

Just for perspective, here is the last Bent Jesperson I know of to be on the market around here. He is widely considered to be the finest active wooden boat builder on the west coast (perhaps in the world). The boat sold for less than the asking here. Note the many differences, yet the similar price tag. This boat blows Taleisin out of the water, but costs about the same. She probably has at least 50k worth of sails alone. The builder is a far more renowned craftsman than Larry Pardey. Has all the bells and whistles, including a nice engine. I too hope they get their asking price, but it doesn't seem plausible.



1993 Jespersen Custom Cold Molded Schooner Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



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Old 15-01-2014, 22:38   #80
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Originally Posted by clipper059
The Pardeys are awesome, the value of anything is in the eye of the beholder. Iv only been into boating for almost 5 years and Im 24 "no expert sailor" and if there is one thing I know about boaters is that most of them are very quick to beleive their experiance makes them vastly experianced sailors and gives them the right to talk down to others about how the idea they have is wrong and they infact have the best way to go about it. like how stupid trying to sell that awesome boat for whatever price is. I cant even think of how many plactic boat guys have "given me advice" on my wooden spars like they actualy know what they are talking about. point is, why do so many feel the need to so strongly push their ideas on others, why cant people be happy for the pardeys and what they have done? instead its just a buch of people showing how smart they are in that they would never pay that much for a boat. makes me think of the people that hate on my girl friend and I when we are out happily dancing because they dont feel as easy with them selfs as we do, and need to justify to themselfs that we are infact stupid or whatever.
If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. the world doesnt need people constatly raining on other peoples parades, just let them be happy and think their boat is worth what ever.
sorry a bit of a rant, just tired of miserable people trying to bring happy awesome people like the Pardeys down for whatever.
Can't thank you privately from the mobile app so am thanking you publicly for your post.
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Old 16-01-2014, 01:33   #81
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Re: Taleisin for sale

Anyone calculating the value of Taleisin based on the construction, size, and feature-list will no-doubt figure the boat far overpriced.

The question at hand is, what's a unique boat with such a storied provenance worth to a true sailing devotee?

If Larry Ellison can spend over a million dollars on a carbon fiber mast, who's to say there isn't somebody equally smitten with the world of sailing who wouldn't like to claim Taleisin as their own for the bargain basement price of $175k?

Personally, I would appreciate, care-for, display, and own Taleisin far more than I would any painting ever produced.

Speaking of painting, if it takes canvas to create art, I dare suggest Taleisin is vastly under-priced based on the amount she comes with.
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Old 16-01-2014, 05:35   #82
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Can't thank you privately from the mobile app so am thanking you publicly for your post.
Yes. He caught my thoughts I could not get down on paper.
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Old 11-02-2014, 14:10   #83
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Re: Taleisin for sale

Taliesin is almost diametrically the opposite of the sort of boat I would ever own, but I 'get' Sondor's take on it perfectly.

I would argue further that the boat is an exceptional example of its type, even without the back-story.

The asking price seems like a bargain, to me.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:20   #84
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Re: Taleisin for sale

No offense to anyone, but I do not understand what the contribution that the Pardey's have made to sailing and cruising, or the "balls and abilities" that they may have, have anything at all to do with the value of the boat that they are selling.

I understand that there are some people in this world who believe the boat is worth more, simply because it was theirs. If they can find one of those people, who is willing to pay that much for it, more power to them. Were I in the market for a boat like this, though, much as I admire the Pardey's, it would simply be a boat. Worth no more, and no less, than any similar boat in similar condition.

That is not a reflection on the Pardey's, since I would not be buying the Pardey's. I would only be buying a boat.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:39   #85
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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No offense to anyone, but I do not understand what the contribution that the Pardey's have made to sailing and cruising, or the "balls and abilities" that they may have, have anything at all to do with the value of the boat that they are selling.

I understand that there are some people in this world who believe the boat is worth more, simply because it was theirs. If they can find one of those people, who is willing to pay that much for it, more power to them. Were I in the market for a boat like this, though, much as I admire the Pardey's, it would simply be a boat. Worth no more, and no less, than any similar boat in similar condition.

That is not a reflection on the Pardey's, since I would not be buying the Pardey's. I would only be buying a boat.
That is the core of the debate on this thread. The only reason to pay that much for a well maintained but severly outdated boat is if you are buying into the mythos of the Pardeys (whatever that gets you).

If they get the money good for them but if someone was considering the boat and asked for my opinion on if it was good for the modern cruiser (not someone trying to prove they can do it old school style)...I would have a tough time keeping a straight face.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:49   #86
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Re: Taleisin for sale

Everyone wants to get as much as they can for their boat when they sell it. And the first step, even if you have a commodity production boat, is to list it at an optimistic price. You never know when someone is going to come along that has to have a particular boat, and that is even more true with unique boat like Taleisin. It's not "entitlement" to hope that that boat goes for a premium. It's not like the Pardy's are rolling in cake either. I hope they find the right buyer and sell the boat at a price that is acceptable to them.

The power of a brand is pretty extraordinary. I'm always shocked at what Hinkleys and Aldens sell for. They are without a doubt beautiful boats but most of them are dated in their design and force a bunch of compromises on the new owner. But people just have to have them.

When I was looking at boats last time around I thought it would be fun to look at Alden 44s just because I think they have one of the most beautiful hull shapes to ever grace the water. I was amazed at what people wanted for them, given the fact that they have smaller cabins than even some 35' boats. One in particular was listed at over $140,000 and was in pretty sorry shape...faded topsides poorly painted deck, corroded fittings, shot rigging and sails, ancient electronics and a well worn interior. The broker readily admitted that it was overpriced and that ultimately it would sell for half that price to someone who just had to have an Alden, and was willing to refit at tremendous cost and end up with a boat worth half what they had invested in it. I just saw that it finally sold for somewhere under $100k. Even that was a shocker given it's condition.

And that's just an Alden. Taleisin is a unique boat with a unique history. Someone out there is going to want it, and be willing to pay a premium for it, and be the type of owner that the Pardys are willing to sell to and in the end both the buyer and seller will be happy. "Value" is not always measured in specs and inventory.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:52   #87
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Originally Posted by Sondor View Post
Anyone calculating the value of Taleisin based on the construction, size, and feature-list will no-doubt figure the boat far overpriced.

The question at hand is, what's a unique boat with such a storied provenance worth to a true sailing devotee?
A bit overblown, I'd say. Sailboats, other than those from the days of sail, don't have a provenance, storied or not. If any boat had a good sailing history it was the Hiscock's Wanderer III and I don't think she went for an astronomical price.

This thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, the one about John Voigt's car.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:35   #88
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Re: Taleisin for sale

I agree with most postings about the strict value of an older wooden boat not being worth 175K but I wonder how much the original "Spray" would go for? I think someone would be willing to shell out quite a bit of $ for her just because of who sailed her.
I have been on Taleisin when she was in Annapolis a few years back and can honestly say it's not a boat for me but being a woodworker, I can certainly appreciate the love and the man-hours that went into her. I love the romantic notion of a wooden bought and almost bought one years ago before I came to my senses.
For 175K, I would opt for a modern fiberglass, like a Bristol 47.7 or the like.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:33   #89
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Re: Taleisin for sale

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
No offense to anyone, but I do not understand what the contribution that the Pardey's have made to sailing and cruising, or the "balls and abilities" that they may have, have anything at all to do with the value of the boat that they are selling.

I understand that there are some people in this world who believe the boat is worth more, simply because it was theirs. If they can find one of those people, who is willing to pay that much for it, more power to them. Were I in the market for a boat like this, though, much as I admire the Pardey's, it would simply be a boat. Worth no more, and no less, than any similar boat in similar condition.

That is not a reflection on the Pardey's, since I would not be buying the Pardey's. I would only be buying a boat.
++1 on that

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
One thing is for sure - once sold the boat will break there hearts when (not if!) it ends up in the hands of someone who does not understand how much work and skill and knowledge is required to keep lots of wood in top condition.
Well said. Now imagine you shelling out $150K for this boat and never own it. It will forever be the Pardeys boat. You sail everywhere and they say - there - look at the Pardeys boat!
There is a lot of pride in the work you put into your boat, and its great when you hear praises, but when you sail an expensive boat that will always be someones else's.... I dunno.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:26   #90
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Re: Taleisin for sale

I got tired of reading the rehash of whether Lynn and Larry deserve Kudos for their sailing and writing... so if someone already said this I apologize. The boat is worth what someone pays for it. From the pics, it looks to be in pretty sweet condition and a wooden boat sailor might pay a premium to have a beautiful show boat for festivals etc. As for the Pardeys owning it. Only reason I'd pay more is cuz I'd trust them to "do the right thing" when having her built or executing repairs.
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