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Old 21-07-2011, 16:34   #16
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

What's so bad about the whole thing is, the officers have to investigate all complaints, or at least they are supposed to.

Thats why there was an investigation on canucksailor's complaint.
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Old 21-07-2011, 16:46   #17
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Nope Don, it is like asking the police to check out a car parked on the street near your house.

The water is equivalent to a street--a legal thorofare that is equally owned and shared by the public. You have no more right to that street in front of your house than I do.

If you kept calling the police about cars you didn't like parked on your street I think quite rightly the police would tell you to desist.

If crimes were being committed that is something different, but in the USA it is not legal or right to harass citizens going about their business.

Another example is that a few years ago some businesses felt that teenagers hanging out downtown were bad for business, so they got the city council to pass a law that groups of more than three I think it was couldn't congregate for more than 10 minutes in a particular location. Well, the teens quite rightly started reporting senior citizens sitting on park benches for more than 10 minutes and anyone else that stood around and the police had to come and ask them to move on or they would be ticketed. The law was dropped after about two weeks of this.

Think how you would feel if after a long day on the Waterway you dropped the hook in Sunset Lake for the evening and the police showed up to ask you to move on.
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Old 21-07-2011, 16:52   #18
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Checking and harassing aren't the same! I'm for checking and aganist harassing.
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Old 21-07-2011, 16:57   #19
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

To me, checking is harassing, especially if they are asking the boater to move, which is what they said they did.
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Old 21-07-2011, 17:28   #20
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Checking on things is part of the job description; needlessly asking someone to move on when there are no ordinances or laws being broken isn't. The two are clearly delineated.
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Old 21-07-2011, 18:13   #21
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Re: Sunset Lake, MB Police ethics investigation complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannah on 'Rita T' View Post
the perfect sandy beach with two palm trees and a reef gets boring after a while.
seriously? I've been to that beach, and I always run out of water before it gets boring.

Of course, I only carry 200 gallons.
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Old 21-07-2011, 20:50   #22
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Quote:
If it was a car full of people behind your house would your answer change?
If they were a group of youngsters, or very rowdy, and parked in a rusting 65 Rambler and puffing a joint, yea, I could agree with you.

But a couple, generally in their 50s or older, in a boat worth upwards of, in most cases, $100k sipping on a rum or beer while watching the sun go down?

That changes the terms of the question and its appropriate response just a wee bit, doncha think?

My hope is that the police will finally tell Karlton and his neighbours that they are not responding to complaints about boats being anchored, at least not without reasonable cause to do so.

As much as the owners believe that their taxes give them a right to a response from the police, same as any citizen, they need to be told that boats anchoring do not justify a police response - other than "Sorry, we won't be dealing with that."
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Old 21-07-2011, 20:57   #23
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Astrid -
Quote:
Checking on things is part of the job description
For the police to act in ANY situation, they require probable cause that something illegal is going on. The minute you interfere with a citizen in any fashion without cause, you are harassing.
Stopping to ask boaters at anchor to move on is patently illegal on the part of the police. If I were to have taken this to a civil rights suit, I would have won as the police openly told me they had no right nor cause to be stopping by. I'm not that type, and I understood that the problem they were dealing with was on shore, not on board, but nonetheless....
That's harassment, no matter how polite they are. Checking, no matter how benign it sounds, isn't permissible.
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Old 21-07-2011, 21:08   #24
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

I believe the USCG can check with no reason But this crack pot is no different then the crazy cat woman down the street calling the cops every time someone slams their door because it disturbs her cats
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Old 21-07-2011, 22:34   #25
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Difference between car on street vs. boat in anchorage?
Disregarding the legalities, a car can turn the ignition key and be 5 miles away in 10 minutes at a legal speed. I might not even have the anchor up in 10 minutes.
Besides, sailors would only steal jetskis to have a bonfire.
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Old 22-07-2011, 05:03   #26
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Though it may be a frustrating situation for all three parties involved. But, with all due respect to Canucksailor, there is nothing in the above report that proves Karlton or the police have done anything illegal. There are several allegations of illegal behavior, but allegations are just that, they are not proof of anything. Like it or not citizens do have a right to call the police. In fact it is very much encouraged by police departments all over the country if a citizen feels something is not quite right in their mind. It is the police departments job to respond and to decide what's really going on if anything at all.
Police respectfully asking you to voluntarily move so that there may be no further headaches with all parties concerned is not harassment, but a polite request with no threat of legal enforcement. A civil rights violation suit would be a waste of time and money.
Also, taking a sailing class to a specific spot with the captains/instructors prior knowledge that this particular spot is a hot bed of believed harassment is an interesting move as well. If I were a student I might reasonably question the captains/instructors motivation and the intended lesson.
I understand that Mr. Karlton is a pain. It's no great revelation down in these parts. But excluding his multiple calls to police, sixty calls within a block area should raise a few red flags in any neighborhood as well.
Is this report a good thing? I suppose it depends on who's ox it is. What I do find to be a somewhat interesting dichotomy is that it is not hard to find loads of advice here on CF to those asking about local populations when cruising to other countries other than your own and how to deal with them. I do believe the majority of advice, and rightfully so, is to respect the ways of the locals, whether you may agree with how they do things or not.
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Old 22-07-2011, 05:17   #27
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Sounds like time to let it go:

1. The landowner is imature and that won't change. But he does realize his rights have limits. That is enough.
2. The point has been made to the Police. Further harasment of the homeowner could make his position valid.

I'm not saying I would go far out of my way to avoid anchoring in front of a house. I'm saying there is nothing more that can be done to help this guy see fairness and reality.
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Old 22-07-2011, 05:43   #28
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

I would like to know does he have purchase receipts to go along with the 4 jet skis that were stolen that he filed police reports on?

If not, he would have a much bigger problem if it was brought to light, specifically to the Miami Beach PD (false reports of grand theft). His Insurance company would probably raise their eyebrows as well, even if he did not claim it on his insurance.

I don't know how to go about finding out other than maybe going through the state to check on the registrations.

No new registrations over that 9 month period would prove he is a liar and make his multiple police reports of theft fruadulent and actionable.

Multiple registrations proving that he did in fact purchase 4 jet skis that were stolen would prove that he is not the sharpest tack in the box.
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Old 22-07-2011, 06:28   #29
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksailor View Post
For the police to act in ANY situation, they require probable cause that something illegal is going on.
100% wrong and incorrect.

examples: child trapped in well, someone calls police, they pull child out. Nothing illegal there.

Someone sees smoke from YOUR boat and calls the police. they arrive and find no one on board and put out a small electric fire. Nothing illegal going on there.

Canuck, you told us you were a publisher, but now you are talking like a lawyer. Stop making ridiculous legal statements when you are just blowin' smoke...
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Old 22-07-2011, 06:34   #30
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Re: Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Though it may be a frustrating situation for all three parties involved. But, with all due respect to Canucksailor, there is nothing in the above report that proves Karlton or the police have done anything illegal. There are several allegations of illegal behavior, but allegations are just that, they are not proof of anything. Like it or not citizens do have a right to call the police. In fact it is very much encouraged by police departments all over the country if a citizen feels something is not quite right in their mind. It is the police departments job to respond and to decide what's really going on if anything at all.
Police respectfully asking you to voluntarily move so that there may be no further headaches with all parties concerned is not harassment, but a polite request with no threat of legal enforcement. A civil rights violation suit would be a waste of time and money.
Also, taking a sailing class to a specific spot with the captains/instructors prior knowledge that this particular spot is a hot bed of believed harassment is an interesting move as well. If I were a student I might reasonably question the captains/instructors motivation and the intended lesson.
I understand that Mr. Karlton is a pain. It's no great revelation down in these parts. But excluding his multiple calls to police, sixty calls within a block area should raise a few red flags in any neighborhood as well.
Is this report a good thing? I suppose it depends on who's ox it is. What I do find to be a somewhat interesting dichotomy is that it is not hard to find loads of advice here on CF to those asking about local populations when cruising to other countries other than your own and how to deal with them. I do believe the majority of advice, and rightfully so, is to respect the ways of the locals, whether you may agree with how they do things or not.
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