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Old 04-04-2013, 19:26   #1
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Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Any thoughts:


Carnival won't reimburse Uncle Sam for ship rescues- MSN Money
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Old 04-04-2013, 19:35   #2
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Interesting story. If they are in distress, perhaps not. Real distress - not hot passengers eating convenience foods and sleeping on deck.

Otherwise, they need to contract their own tow boats, or pay whoever rescues them.
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Old 04-04-2013, 19:38   #3
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

since most of the passengers are us citizens paying the wages of the coast guard through their taxes,and any levie will just be passed on to the passengers who will continue to pay the coast guards wages via their taxes,this would just be another stealth tax on the poor downtrodden worker trying to enjoy his 2 weeks outside the gulag.....
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Old 04-04-2013, 19:44   #4
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Personally, I think it would be a great idea if USCG operated as a profit center and charged all yacht/ship owners that needed their service.
It would wake up many operators who depended on Insurance policies and nanny state free rescue services to look a bit closer at their maintenance management and decision making processes.
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:03   #5
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Personally, I think it would be a great idea if USCG operated as a profit center and charged all yacht/ship owners that needed their service.
It would wake up many operators who depended on Insurance policies and nanny state free rescue services to look a bit closer at their maintenance management and decision making processes.
Why provide the service at all, i'm sure the free market would step in to provide life-saving services to boaters. Anyone saved that couldn't afford the rates could just get years of free servitude to the rescue corporation.
The wealthy could pay millions to have their life saved, they would get "boat rescue insurance".
This could be a great business. Warren Buffet and Goldman Saks will get on board. They might get some really difficult qualifications in place, so nobody but them could afford to qualify as "qualified life preservation servicers" QLPS), you know, like requiring $3billion bonds, and minimum boat and plane resources. Anyone caught helping someone in trouble that isn't a QLPS would be prosecuted. Yeah, I like it, free market solves all problems, this will work out great. In fact, don't let anyone on the ocean unless they have sufficent QLPS insurance coverage, like the great health insurance in the USA, can't live without it!

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Old 04-04-2013, 20:16   #6
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Why not just apply the marine salvage laws? I see no reason a government can't exercise the same rights a private entity can. If there is danger to life or property or the environment, then a case can be made that the rescue is a salvage, and then just slap a lien on the ship.

Rescuing the people, if they are in danger, is what the Coast Guard is supposed to be doing - that portion of their mission should be free and paid for by tax dollars. Spending money to tow crippled cruise ships back to port is a commercial operation, and should be charged as such, and at the same rate a private tow would charge.
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:21   #7
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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....this will work out great. In fact, don't let anyone on the ocean unless they have sufficent QLPS insurance coverage, like the great health insurance in the USA, can't live without it!
Glad you agree…
Actually deregulation and removal of nanny state involvement would allow anybody to go on the oceans…. It’s just that some would not come back.

Why don’t we call just call it: “Darwin’s Independent Evaluation” or D.I.E. for short?
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:30   #8
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Technically, USGS had rescued nobody and the towing was done by a private entity.

The USCG ship was on standby and monitoring the situation ... just in case things go from bad to worse. There was no call to abandon the ship, and USCG was not asked to board the ship in any capacity ... if memory serves me correctly.

Still ... considering the number of incidents at sea Carnival had in recent years, and amount of material effort USCG put into "monitoring" the crippled Carnival ships, the reimbursement seems appropriate.
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:39   #9
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
since most of the passengers are us citizens paying the wages of the coast guard through their taxes,and any levie will just be passed on to the passengers who will continue to pay the coast guards wages via their taxes,this would just be another stealth tax on the poor downtrodden worker trying to enjoy his 2 weeks outside the gulag.....
This is akin to a bus service using the highway patrol for towing, rather than their own fleet services. The US Coast guard got out of the non-distress towing business a while ago. If the cruise industry can't keep their ships running, or get them home when they break down, perhaps it isn't a viable industry. We're kinda broke, and around here the food banks are busier than ever. The people that can afford to go on a cruise can pay the $20 extra into the cruise lines TowBoats US fund.

Of course the industry does not want to pay, that's no surprise. I have fiscal conservative friends that have received millions in ag subsides over the years. Philosophically they don't believe in welfare, but who wants to give up free money? I think it is a stretch that free towing will benefit the working class; it is an industry subsidy. If the cruise industry pays to play, we can staff up the coast guard and pay more of them - or private industry will cover and create jobs.
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:39   #10
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
since most of the passengers are us citizens paying the wages of the coast guard through their taxes,and any levie will just be passed on to the passengers who will continue to pay the coast guards wages via their taxes,this would just be another stealth tax on the poor downtrodden worker trying to enjoy his 2 weeks outside the gulag.....
Huh? I guess the passengers should get free one way tickets to Europe and EU residency at Carnival expense instead ...
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Old 04-04-2013, 20:43   #11
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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I have fiscal conservative friends that have received millions in ag subsides over the years. Philosophically they don't believe in welfare, but who wants to give up free money?
That's the really sad part.
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Old 04-04-2013, 21:11   #12
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Glad you agree…
Actually deregulation and removal of nanny state involvement would allow anybody to go on the oceans…. It’s just that some would not come back.

Why don’t we call just call it: “Darwin’s Independent Evaluation” or D.I.E. for short?
Perhaps better, we can use some "preemptive rescues", and when finding someone out at sea, they could be given a "stress test", and if they don't pass would be considered needing of rescue.
I think ABC Yacht Services is ready to sign up as a QLPS franchisee.

Probably could apply the same to Fire and Rescue, I mean only dumb people let their house catch on fire, why save them unless they have F&R insurance?
The QLPS subsidary F&R could then pay firefighters what they deserve, not those out of control Public Employee contract rates.

Frankly, I'm moving to Somalia, they know how to deregulate government services, it is working quite well, a lot of wealthy people there.

JackB
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Old 04-04-2013, 21:20   #13
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

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Frankly, I'm moving to Somalia, they know how to deregulate government services, it is working quite well, a lot of wealthy people there.
Funny ... good luck, and don't forget to sent a card to ABC Yacht Services. They will feel at home there ...
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Old 04-04-2013, 21:22   #14
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Glad you agree…
Actually deregulation and removal of nanny state involvement would allow anybody to go on the oceans…. It’s just that some would not come back.

Why don’t we call just call it: “Darwin’s Independent Evaluation” or D.I.E. for short?
Perfect solution.

Steve
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Old 04-04-2013, 21:25   #15
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Re: Should Carnival reimburse the US?

Nimblemotors....Glad you are seeing the Light!.....

My Bad!!.....I should stop now and allow for some serious debate that assumes this was not a cheap political trick by the senator.
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