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Old 05-04-2010, 19:07   #16
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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Dont think so

They were taking an illegal shortcut

Red line is where they should have gone and pink line is where they tried to cut the corner at Douglas shoal


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Thats correct, im on the Pacific Responder heading down from Cairns at the mo with booms and spill gear, we will be there latter today.
I should point out that while technically this can be described as an "illegal" shortcut, this practice has been going on for years, and not just here....

Pacific Responder....<ETVStatus>
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:37   #17
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Thanks cat man do and IslandHopper.
I was guesstimating a bit, as I wasn't able find the officially recomended track.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:07   #18
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"It could be fined $1 million and the ship's captain $250,000 if they are found to have broken Australian maritime law. "

cant hit the reef whilst obeying the law...
So is that really the extent of liability under Aussie law? A million dollars is chump change and won't begin to compensate for potential long term losses to the reef.
From the shipping company's perspective it's a small insurance claim and a worthy economical risk similar to what is fostering the Somali pirate activity - it's just the cheapest way to deal with the hazard.

In my view the fines should be such that while mother nature will take a long time to restore the affected portion of the reef, conservation and restoration of the reef as a whole should be funded either directly by the company or as a surcharge to transit the zone the rate of which should be determined by the costs of adequate conservation programs to maintain the reef.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:03   #19
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They should consider manditory pilots for sensitive and difficult areas such as this and criminal liability for those who can't follow the rules
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:23   #20
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Sam Plan B, we can all agree that history (and the bottom of the sea) is strewn with wrecks due to bad seamanship/stupidity, but the narrative accounts from 1876 to 1951 concern ships without all of the technical aids of the modern era : no GPS/chartplotters, only the most recent ones with radar and depth sounders.

With the tools available in this day and age, this sort of thing should not happen. The only way to deter similar (mis)conduct in the future, in my opinion, is through huge sanctions, including the pursuit of criminal charges/jail sentences against those responsible.

In most countries we vigorously prosecute criminal charges for wilfull damage/mischief to property and cruelty to animals where the consequences were much smaller; if statutes need to be amended to include sealife, so be it. However, I am confident that criminalizing the conduct will be a far more effective deterrent than the use of regulatory offences.

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Old 06-04-2010, 12:10   #21
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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Snip..

In most countries we vigorously prosecute criminal charges for wilfull damage/mischief to property and cruelty to animals where the consequences were much smaller; if statutes need to be amended to include sealife, so be it. However, I am confident that criminalizing the conduct will be a far more effective deterrent than the use of regulatory offences.

Brad
That pre-supposes that the foreign master of a ship from a country, with perhaps less concern for the environment, is even aware of laws that criminalize environmental damage. Making the use of a pilot mandatory is perhaps a better way of shutting the door before the horse has bolted.

P.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:49   #22
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Skipper should be thrown in gaol (jail for our u.s. cousins)

Surely with all of the native nasties you guys have in Oz you can come up with something better than that. King Browns, Salt water crocs, Great Whites, Box Jellies, why not just let nature take her revenge.
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Old 06-04-2010, 15:28   #23
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Not to play down this mess, but take a look through the Board Of Trade Wreck Reports at the site below. These provide narrative accounts (1876 to 1951) of the dumb things Masters and Mates do, drunk or sober. It puts this sorry event in some historical context. Wreck Reports - PortCities Southampton
Likewise, if you look at my albums you will see one dedicated to the salvage of the Pasha Bulker. While general opinion was that it was to become a permanent feature under the lighthouse eventually it was returned to sea.
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Old 06-04-2010, 18:28   #24
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9 miles off, in reef area ???

The 'captain' should be shot. The officer on watch too. The company should pay full repair cost and a fine.

Unsailingbelievable!

What a pity too - Aus has some of the finest cruising coasts I have been to. The pictures hurt.

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Old 06-04-2010, 19:09   #25
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So is that really the extent of liability under Aussie law? A million dollars is chump change and won't begin to compensate for potential long term losses to the reef.
From the shipping company's perspective it's a small insurance claim and a worthy economical risk similar to what is fostering the Somali pirate activity - it's just the cheapest way to deal with the hazard.

In my view the fines should be such that while mother nature will take a long time to restore the affected portion of the reef, conservation and restoration of the reef as a whole should be funded either directly by the company or as a surcharge to transit the zone the rate of which should be determined by the costs of adequate conservation programs to maintain the reef.
Liability and Fines are two different things, the last sizable maritime mishap here resulted in the shipping company and Captain looking down the barrel of the same fines (still going through the courts). The shipping company was also instructed by the state government that they were liable for the AU$35m cleanup, this was/is incorrect and the liability was negotiated down to AU$25m, the reason for the lower payment was that under the current legislation the shipping company was only liable for a max of AU$17m and the Tax Payer funds the rest, the reason for the extra AU$8m was seen as a goodwill gesture, but in reality was probably to shut up the State Premier.
There are good reasons for the limited Liability that I won’t go into here as no doubt the more emotional among us would have a hard time coming to grips with it, and believe it or not, most nations around the world have the same...
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Old 09-04-2010, 15:47   #26
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So is that really the extent of liability under Aussie law? A million dollars is chump change and won't begin to compensate for potential long term losses to the reef.
While at sea I have been listening to ABC National Radio and there has been a bit of an expert debate about the legal accountability as far as fines/penalties are concerned. One issue is that it might be outside Australian jurisdiction/territorial water excepting some sort of Barrier Reef World Heritage area argument. As such, the politicians are launching the expected action of arguing about tighter legislation and harder penalties. Not that I don’t think this should not happen; just like usual why wait till a disaster before acting?
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Old 09-04-2010, 17:46   #27
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an interesting comparison is the Cosco Busan event in the San Francisco Bay;

Cosco Busan oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mostly this all just sucks : -P
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Old 11-04-2010, 03:37   #28
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I picked this up from one of our national papers.

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Three men have been charged with steering a cargo ship through a restricted part of Australia's Great Barrier Reef, police said on today, days after another bulk carrier ran aground in the same marine park.
See Australia charges crew with taking ship via reef - Australasia, World - The Independent for the full story.

P
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Old 11-04-2010, 21:56   #29
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I picked this up from one of our national papers.
Thanks for the update!
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Old 11-04-2010, 23:07   #30
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I picked this up from one of our national papers.



See Australia charges crew with taking ship via reef - Australasia, World - The Independent for the full story.

P
Just need to point out that this was a separate incident with a vessel coming in through a channel near Bowen to abbot point, about 300nm north of the ship aground
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